iBrandon

****UPDATE! PICTURES POSTED BELOW*****

I have someone who recently brought me a car with a motor he just had rebuilt. Its a N/A GSR motor, running on 310cc injectors on type R pistons with stock rods and cams.

When he asked me to look it over, i had to readjust the fuel pressure (it was way off) and retime the car back to 16 or so degrees and fasten or ziptie his spark plug wires down cuz they were coming off loose. He wanted to get it tuned at another time, and asked me to make him a basemap. He had a p28 chipped ecu on crome, but was running on Stock p28 previously until it was chipped for like 100 miles i think...not sure...Big mistake in the first place...

So i made him a safe base map, and told him to specifically not to get on it until tuned or not even drive it at all if possible. Well week later he calls me back and says cylinder number 4 is gone. 3 valves are cut off, piston is mangled, head is gummed up for that cylinder 4 and spark plug is chewed up or bits missing.

I asked him the condition of the other 3 cylinders and he said it was fine. My first thought is, dam he dropped a valve, but he says that the stems are still attached to the springs and weren't loose. Then i thought well maybe his injector was clogged like no other and he couldn't verify.

From everyones experience is there anyway he could of messed up his cylinder that bad without smashing the pedal to the ground? I have never seen that...and i know for sure that basemap was rich...

I tuned cars for 3-4 years(mostly turbo), as well as chip ecu's and never had a basemap mess up on me if driven with care...before getting tuned.

Im needing some opinions on what could of happened, because there is no way that cylinder could of been effed up that bad if driven cautiously, and with the other 3 cylinders being fine.

Thanks!






Its obvious that he floated a valve(s)...

jarvis199

sounds like he ****ed somethign up...

did he complain about the car running bad on the basemap? i mean bucking or mis-firing? those kinda things are his responsibility too

boostedcivicsir

sounds like it got over reved, possibly floated a valve or 2 and broke the valve heads off. w/o actually seeing the car it is kinda hard.

iBrandon

The car ran like stock, i had him drive it around the block a few times to be sure it was not bucking or misfiring. Check the plugs really quick to be sure it was not overly rich and sent him on his way.

Anyone who smashes their car on a base map is negligent. Base maps are intended for you to get to point A to point B to get tuned, not to drive around everyday on it, unless you completely have too and even then dont get on it.

Even if it was running a little lean, it should have not destroyed a cylinder completely at part throttle like that. And having the other 3 cylinders being just fine? I just find it hard to believe it was a basemap failure if driven at low speeds....

iBrandon

Yeh im trying to get him to send me pictures.

DaveF

i agree with this. perhaps high rpm valve float snapped the valves off.

what kind of condition was the plug in ?

another scenerio would be the plug burnt up, dropped some parts, broke the piston, the piston peices get logged in between the valve and seat, breaking the valves off.

OmegaDynamics

What valve springs and valves? Harsh dual valve springs and stock valves have lead to many a random dropped valve.

HiProfile

First off, I'd have made the last vac 3 columns severly retarded. Most people will back off and wonder WTF before the exhaust valves overheat. Second, I'd have put a very low redline on it. Third - I'd have him sign a waiver if he didn't accept 1 or 2.

Sounds like it was probably a decked block/motor, 2 layer HG, virtually zero valve/piston clearance due to the way CTR pistons sit - he over-reved it & piston kissed a valve. Or he simply did the dreaded 3-2 shift, floated a valve, and it all came tumbling down.


One thing that puzzles me is the wire situation. If they were blowing off the plugs, that would tell me there's lots of blowby going on, and not PCV valve function. Failing rings + bad PCV valve can lead to a very unpleasant experience.

92civicx

i never heard anyone blowing a motor going the speed limit then all of a sudden bam, blown motor. his falt he did something wrong...

Tony the Tiger

As much as the customer hates it, I just set the rev limiter to 5000RPM and no VTEC for the base map... Problems solved. If he's going to get it tuned, then there is no need for him to rev out the car. I do that for all cars that need to get from point A to point B before it gets tuned. Too many uninformed people that think "tuning" is to get more power out of the setup rather than safety.

tokesGTR

Well, I spun a bearing in my RB26 doing 70 km/hr putzing along in 5th

iBrandon

i agree, next time ill lower the rev limit and cut vtec off, and if they are still able to blow a motor on that, i will be amazed...(actually not really, cuz i have seen alot of dumb things people do) haha

iBrandon

Updated with Pics...

twkdCD595

oh wow, that cyl is absolutely fubar'd.

purpleh22

With the damage evident (head & piston) seems it was either high rev related or driven a lot after parts were rattling around in the cylinder. Guessing it was over reved to start the whole problem. Haven't seen any Honda valve heads come off at low rpms.

SOHC_MShue

i think its safe to say that wasn't caused by the tune

SovXietday

Ouch. I wonder what the hotside of his turbo looks like after sending his valves through it in small pieces.

FastEg6

It's N/A.

SD_Lurker

iTrader: (4)

Reading owns joo!! LOL

cockerkid008

but then why is it in forced induction section?

SovXietday

D'OH!

I mean uh, yeah, I bet that would have sucked if he had a turbo on there.

HiProfile

If he was just 'driving normal', IE tooling around at maybe 3k rpm, there is no way the head/cylinder would get that messed up. You can look all around H-T, and that looks far worse than the usual motor that dropped a valve at 8k. Its also very impossible to get an NA GSR with minor upgrades to have such terrible pre-ignition happen in only one cylinder. Even if it was a clogged injector, he'd have to have it WOT to get that bad of pre-ignition.


My bet is he DID do a 3-2 shift, rev'd it into quintuple-digits, and is hoping with an outside chance you are willing to replace the motor. W/o any implied warranty (and the level of devistation), there should no obligation on your part.

Flashmn

Nah, its not the tune, the adjacent cylinders look fine with no signs of detonation...

I'd tell the kid to get lost.

Blind-Fashion

I'd put my dollars on a mis-shift to. Since it didint pull through the retainer it can only be a couple things. Over rev or timing belt slipped...

iBrandon

Thanks everyone for your reply, well he didn't say anything about me replacing the motor directly, but said everything was good up til i put a base map in...

I also notice on his engine, that there was a slight head gasket leak, leaking oil down by the vtec solenoid area, and it wasnt from the cam seals... Also who ever put together his engine used black rtv sealant on everything....oil pan, oil and water pump....which threw a red flag in my head...

I really feel bad for the guy, and wished he took it to me to assemble to be sure everything was done right, but i am not responsible.... Also having ITR pistons in it, i bet you they milled the head, and decked the block and didn't bother checking the valve to piston clearance at all...


Now that i remember, he did tell me he did a compression check on all the cylinders the day before it effed up, and said it was good....i wonder if he drop something in there that cause it to reek havoc.