ScottEK

Before I start I realize that everyone is just stating their opinion and there is no one right answer. I'm just interested in some insight from others if they were in my shoes. I've been running 10PSI on my B16 for about a year and I'm hitting low 13's on street tires. I want more and I have money. I can't decide if it would be worth it to build my spare GSR block because it could potentially be too much power. I've been seeing all these amazing numbers people have been hitting with no forged components at all and I'm starting to wonder what my goal should even be with a fully built setup. I'm looking at the money I have saved up for sleeves and it's getting tempting to just start buying some 1.6 parts. Here's what I have at my disposal:

Current Setup(running):
B16 Head w/ GSR Cams
Stock B16 Block

Extra Short Block(cracked sleeve):
B18C1 Short Stock Short Block - Needs Sleeving

Turbo:
Garrett T3/T04E 60 trim .63 exhaust
Feels too big for the b16 w/ just 10psi if you ask me, probably would suit the GSR better?

If I built my current B16 I would leave the stock bore size since I wouldn't want to take any meat away from the already weak sleeves. I would buy aftermarket lower compression pistons and rods. This would be a very cheap build (when compared to the GSR) but I'm worried that the stock sleeves and the stock bore size / lack of the additional .2 liters would leave me with a weak setup. With this option I could also sell the B18C block for some spare change.

If I built the blown GSR block I would send it out to have it sleeved and go with a 84.5mm bore size. I would buy aftermarket pistons, rods, and I would also need a larger bore headgasket. I'm sure there are a ton more hidden cost on this setup just because the rest of the car would have to be able to hold the power this engine would be putting out.

Sorry if this thread is vauge but I'm just looking for ANY insight.


Modified by beta13 at 2:08 AM 11/22/2004

spectacle

my opinion....stay with the b16 and sleeve it. all the TQ you get from the GSR will just be pissed away in off the line spinning frenzy even with upgraded suspension parts. not to say it can't be done because it can and has been done MANY MANY times but @ this stage in the game I rather see someone trying something different then just going for all out power

Adi Radoncic

take it from me and just go with the gsr. It will make more power easyer plus, your car won't be down for months while your getting the b16a block machined and put together..

I would sleeve the b18c, go with a nice piston and rod combo and I wouldn't go over 83mm to start with.

ScottEK

I'd never thougt about sleeving the B16 just because it doesn't cost anymore to sleeve the B18.

Also this is just a summer car so down time isn't an issue. Wow, see you have some nice B16 times but I'm guessing that your engine is probably sleeved.

Thanks for the input, still looking for more suggestions.

0ERL Performance

Well, regardless if you want to sleeve your B-18 or your B-16 you need to figure out your end goal. Boost levels and horsepower. I'm assuming that it is going to be street legal as well? Email us at CustomerService@erlperformance or call us toll free at 1-800-944-8808 and we can help with any of your questions. Thanks

ScottEK

Yes it is still going to be street legal, I just want the most I can get out of pump gas with a seperate chip for the available race gas in my area for track events. I've also been trying to decide on a compression ratio. I originally wanted to stay close to stock, but I've been hearing lately that the added power down low really isn't worth it when compared to the safety factor that you are loosing when tuning.

What bore size do any of you guys suggest for the GSR?
When you get sleeves does it cost extra to go with a larger bore size?
Any suggested compression ratios?

turboEGhatch

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beta13 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just want the most I can get out of pump gas </TD></TR></TABLE>

Go with the B18C1, no question. More displacement means more power at less boost, which means more power on pump gas. For bore anything from 81-83 is good, IMHO going 84.5 to start off with is a massive headache just waiting to happen. Melt a piston and what are you going to do, put boost to an 85.5MM motor? The additional power that comes from the extra displacement isn't worth the agony if something happens to your motor. 9:1 compression, 81-83MM is perfect. Usually doesn't cost anything extra to go larger bore.

ExospeedAMcrx

the b18c is the better choice overall due to its bigger displacement and more torque.
Also, your b16 is a good block still and no need to tear it apart when you have a block that needs to be rebuilt anyways.
The only issue is that its cracked and the sleevign process can only sleeve a block if its mildly cracked. Meaning, if its cracked all the way down the cylinders, then it cant be sleeved at all. At least with our sleeving process. With a crack all the way down, it doesnt provide a good foundation for the iron ductile sleeve.
So you have to consider that when looking at the condition of the block.

As far as bore size, you can make good power with a 81.5mm bore already. We have built blocks for customers that have pumped out over 600hp on 81-81.5mm bore setups. You dotn need an 84mm/2.0L to make that power.

Start with an 81.5mm and if something happens to the block, such as if you detonate and melt piston, etc. (of course, I hope that doesnt happen), at least with an 91.5mm you still have plenty of meat left on that sleeved block to go bigger bore. With an 84m bore, the max we recommend for turbo is 84.5mm

We do charge $880 for any bore size so price isnt the issue. its just what you plan your setup to be is what determines the final bore size.

Boosted Chemist

iTrader: (1)

i was in your shoes sleave a b16a or get a b18, if u got a spare block i would do it up, im staying b16 because i dont wanna spend hte extra 500 to get the b18 block and i already have the 16 block, also im boring out the 16 to 84 mm to get some displacement, back. dont forget the rod stroke ratio of a b16a is 1.74, a little food for thought

ScottEK

Looks like the GSR block will be torn apart tomorrow night to take pictures of the cracked sleeve since this could be the deciding factor. Thanks everyone this is the exact discussion I was hoping for.

ScottEK

I took out pistons 1 and 4 today. The bottom of the block was a mess, I found chunks of metal from the piston with a hole, and thick sludge from the oil / coolant mixture. Do you guys replace the oil pickup when you do builds since there is a chance it could have debris trapped in the screen? Here are the pics do you think the sleeves can be repaired or am I in the market to try and find another GSR block?

slowem1si

flip flop

m R g S r

Ouch. Reminds me of my block from last year. What type of FM were you running?

ScottEK

Edit: Just wanted to add that the crack outside the sleeve goes farther than the crack in the cylinder.

It's not mine, I haven't blown a block yet. Transmissions on the other hand...

I bought the block in this condition with a set of GSR cams for $100 about a year ago. I've been using the GSR cams ever since and I'm just now getting ready to do some sort of bottom end build so I got this block back out. The kid who had it before me was on a chipped ECU with no rev limit, he over revved it to the point of contact, and dropped a valve.


Modified by beta13 at 11:04 PM 11/29/2004

ExospeedAMcrx

thats a pretty nice looking crack there.

Its hard to say if its still re-sleeveable with a crack that goes pretty far down. 1" is fine, but whenit gets pretty low into the block, the only way to really tell if its still good is to do the Initial process of Sleeving.

Which is the original sleeves are cut down about half way down the block. The Sleeves are then cut to spec to press fit into the original cylinder walls.

Only will you be able to tell if it the crack has actually gone past the point where the sleeves are cut.

If it continues past that, I wouldnt sleeve it at all. The bottom are is the foundation of it all and its not a good idea to take that chance with a cracked foundation.

jde_07

I dont think I would mess that block it looks pretty screwed but I'm not the expert on it. I would just sleeve the b18. or you could pick another b16 block fairly cheap if you want to stay with that.

Or you could take you b16 head on the gsr block and forge. I don't know if you are into that sort of thing or not. Its been one of the idea's ive been thinking about.

But sorry about the block.