wantboost

iTrader: (2)

So as many/some of you may know I was planning on building a custom evo9 based turbo. Custom billet wheel, ported shroud compressor housing, new evo 9 chra, upgraded td06sl2r turbine wheel and a machined 10.5 single flapper hotside

I was bound and determined to have a proper twin scroll turbo setup but after doing a cost/benefit analysis it simply isn't worth it. I'd be looking at roughly 765 dollars for every component (I would assemble it myself) granted this would be a 100% new turbo it leaves me wondering what I could get in a more common turbocharger frame

The goal here is to have insane response and gobs of torque, I want peak torque by 3500-4500, which the evo turbo will do without breaking a sweat but I'm exploring options. Hp goal is 450-500whp (at most, in track trim but probably dial it back to 300-350 for dd use) on 93 and meth injection. This car is a daily driver but will also see aggressive mountain runs and road courses. No drag racing so I need a strong midrange powerband with a little oomph in the lower rpm band and enough topend to carry me through each gear.

And please don't suggest a precision product. I simply won't buy one

Onto the motor, the first motor that is. I'll be building a sleeved 84.5 or 85mm gsr block with the same ls crank as time goes by

Ls/vtec

B18. Block
"Butchered" crank, balanced, micropolished journals, chamfered oil outlets
Probe I beam rods
81mm arias pistons (10:1-10.5:1cr)
Golden eagle ls/vtec kit
Arp headstuds
Oem headgasket

Head

B16 head
Light port work, enough to gasket match and remove casting marks/flaws. Polished chambers and deshrouded valves
Supertech dual springs
Comp/zex tool steel retainers
GSC T1 cams
Some sort of cam gears

Intake

Right now I have a skunk2 pro series manifold but I also have a set of 46mm itbs that will require heavy fabrication from runners to a dual plenum manifold (itbs will probably be on second motor or later down the road on the first motor)
If used, skunk mani will be ported for the 70mm tb and the runners cleaned up and port matched
70mm tb

Turbo stuff

Depending on turbo selection I have a few different manifolds or I might need to purchase/fabricate a new one
Tubular revhard mani
Tial 38mm wastegate
PWR fmic, 24x12x3 core, 2.5" inlet/outlet centered on endtanks. The hotside will be converted to backdoor and possibly the cold side as well
2.5" intercooler piping on both sides
Numerous bovs to choose from (greddy type r, prof sheepdog, tbo, arc gtr, turbonetics raptor, etc)
3" downpipe off the turbo to a passenger side bumper exit (car is too low to go under the motor unless I get oval piping. Still looking into this as the stuff isn't cheap
Wastegate dumptube will also follow the downpipe and exit out the bumper

Oiling system

Ported, polished, gasket matched oil pump
Moroso 90 degree remote filter adapter that mounts to the ge sandwich plate
8an lines that run to two haas cnc racing billet oil filter mounts
Twin oil filters, each reusable with a different micron rating
8an lines from filters to oil cooler
Oil cooler has built in thermostat bypass, 8an fittings on cooler, core is 8x8x8 and is setup almost like an air to water intercooler, so I'll have a ducted fan blowing air into it, mounted behind bumper, came off aircraft
All lines on chassis will be hardlines, braided lines between motor and chassis and between chassis and cooler.

Drivetrain

LS trans (I know I know but it's all I've got at the moment, second motor will have something different with lots of work done)
Competition Clutch 9lb flywheel
Competition Clutch stage 5 pressure plate and disc
Hardline clutch line from slave over to the back of the trans, braided line between trans and firewal
Still deciding on LSD
Stock axles until I source suitable stronger aftermarket units
Might have the current gearset rem polished and install carbon coated synchros
Custom trans cooler/filter setup.. see below

Tilton scavenging pump
Pre pump inline filter between trans outlet and scavenging pump, system will also have a pressure sender and temperature sender
Thermostat bypass between pump and cooler
8an lines for the entire system. Hardlines on chassis and braided lines between trans and pump and between chassis and cooler
Setrab oil cooler, size undecided

Fuel system/Ignition/Engine management

AEM EMS
Obd2a-obd1 jumper harness
Tucked wiring harness, all unnecessary stuff removed and harness rewrapped, amphenol connectors at firewall
15 gallon fuel cell, 2 8an outlets on sump, 2 on too for vent and return
2 inline filters off sump. One on each fitting
Two walbro gsl392 pumps feeding surge tank of yet unknown size/design
Aeromotive A1000 from surge tank to rail, inline filter between tank and pump
10an feed to rail, 8an return (ITBs will have secondary shower injectors and two rails)
ERL performance fuel rail (primaries)
Aeromotive FPR with gauge
Unknown primary injectors for the first motor at this point
Stock distributor
Either an accel stock replacement coil or ignitor delete, external coil and some sort of ignition box
MSD "big red" plug wires
Iridium plugs

So as you can tell. I'm basically tossing the first motor together because I simply want the car to run and make decent power while I slowly build the second, larger displacement motor.

I've been looking heavily into a used gt3076r (gt30r) as I think it's a decent sacrifice between transient response and midrange torque production. I've also thought about keeping my t25 manifold and running a gt2871r or even putting the 30r into a t25 turbine housing. I feel that will yield even better response and not effect top end power production that much

The power goal with the larger motor will be the same, I'm simply using the added displacement to make more torque and have even better response so I need a turbo that's flexible. One that will work on both a 1.8 liter motor and a 2.0-2.1liter motor. Making as much torque as I'm planning means I don't need some sky high rev limit either. I figure I can stay at 9000 or below and be just fine

So opinions? It's between a t3 flanged turbo or a t25 flanged turbo with a large housing size (.82) I've been talking heavily with Mac (TheShodan) and he said he's had good luck putting a gt3076r into a t25 turbine housing on our motors with improved lowend and midrange power (3000rpm+) with little detriment to upper rpm power loss

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I've been searching through evans tunings dyno graphs. It seems like the 30r might be a little laggy on the 1.8, even with the cams and meth. It seems like it doesn't start making power and torque until 5k. However it might be perfect on the larger motor so I'm not sure

The gt28rs makes the kind of power I'm after but I know I can't break 400 with it, especially on the second motor but I can't find a used one at all
The gt2871 also makes good power and will break 400

So maybe the compromise is a 3071, it will still make the kind of power curve I'm after but won't be as lazy as the 3076. I'm talking with theshodan to see if he has a magic combo that might work

I have a custom turbo he built me years ago but the turbine side really runs out at 350hp, maybe the displacement, cams and meth will let that turbo shine and do what I want

Hopefully mac will chime in here or talk to me on aim because right now, other than the chassis work and engine bay work, the turbo side is holding me up from doing any mockup and fabrication and I'm ready now to purchase a damn turbo and get to work lol

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

And I understand many things affect the way a turbo performs. From cylinder heads to intake manifold plenun size, runner diameter/length. Turbo manifold design, runner size and length, ignition timing, air fuel ratio, how the car was tuned, fuel choice, altitude, humidity, temperature, barometric pressure, intercooler efficiency and size, charge pipe diameters and length, exhaust size, number of bends, length etc

So one can't truly know how a turbo charger will work until you install it and use it.... but by going through similar setups, dyno graphs, compressor maps, turbine efficiency maps and things like that to estimate how the turbo will act but it all comes down to the exact individual setup

And I know I'm trying to bridge the gap between ultimate response and the best possible powerband, which is hard to begin with but it's much harder when dealing with a high revving small displacement motor. But I think I can find a happy medium between the two. I just need to figure out what to sacrifice.

Dark_Teg

I have never had a turbo build boost so easily on the Anti-lag. Everyone that has been in my car comments on how responsive it is. I have had turbo Talons etc... in the past. I was expecting some lag with the 1.8L and a GT3076R but it is pretty much non existent.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yea see a dyno only tells half the story. I know once it's on the road with rolling resistance it will spool quicker. Not to mention all the extra gears you don't use on the dyno lol. Plus when I get the larger 2.0-2.1 liter sleeved motor done (shares the same cylinder head) the 3076 will be that much better. Plus anything like the manifold and turbine housing will be ceramic coated and or heat wrapped/blanketed or both. I might also have swain tech ceramic coat the exhaust ports, chambers, etc. I'm hesitant on ceramic coating the domes on the pistons as muckmans domes showed complete failure of the ceramic dome (granted he didn't use swain) but I'll probably have the skirts coated.

Plus I'm using a very short runner tubular manifold (think mini ram minus the turbo hanging so low) it positions the turbo about as low as a log mani but flows. These short runners mean exhaust gas doesn't have time to slow down and cool before entering the turbo, an issue most long runner manifolds face. Add in the coating and boom, as lag free as is humanly possible

Plus I can play around with a few things, how aggressive the ignition timing is will play a big role in the response characteristics of the turbo

Plus I do plan on having anti-lag setup, both drag style (will rarely use, only to scare cops at lights or convince that redneck he doesn't want to race me... or for waking up my rude neighbors who watched my house burn and say that "we needed a house fire)and rally style. I might try it for half a session at Atlanta Motorsports Park and see what kind of results i get in regards to sector time and lap time improvements. The course does have a 120 degree turn coming off braking at the end of the front straight... 300-400ft to get from 140+ to 35-40mph. Then there's a series of 90 degree turns. A 90L downhill into a 90R uphill to a 90R over crest blind. This is all over an altitude change of 150+ feet across those turns (we call it the rollercoaster) so there are slow speed areas, probably 2nd gear, where I need the power to be there no matter the rpm range. There inlays the problem

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Someone, anyone lol? (Bumping it so mac can go over it and toss in his advice)

Also I'll be adding an accusump to my oiling system to not only store extra oil, but to supply oil if pressure fluctuates and also to provide the turbo with a pressurized oil supply on shutdown to minimize/prevent any bearing system damage as the turbo spins down. I might let the unit fill up then close the shutoff valve, saving the oil solely for the turbocharger as I doubt I'll have any engine starvation problems. It would be plumbed directly to the oil feed fitting on the turbo with a check valve on the feedline from the motor to prevent the oil from traveling back down the feed line into the motor

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I gotcha

1158

TR3030R!

Though that may not get you the torque as early as you want it...

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Hehe.. wouldn't we all. But I think that a nice simple GT3076R is what the doctor ordered. Wantboost is trying to find them used, but many are keeping the good ones for themselves. They are a gem indeed to have .

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Yea they are impossible to find

Mac, I forgot about my MHI based Banks Sidewinder turbo. I can do something similar to what I wanted to do with my twin scroll evo turbo (minus the twin scroll obviously) but It will allow me to play around with a few wheel choices (cheap) as well as housings (again cheap) but in a straight TD06 frame MHI turbo with a t3 turbine side, although 10cm is the smallest t3 housing I can get (vs the 14cm on it now)

It's a 58.8/67.2 turbine wheel and I know what you said about running that wheel in a t25 based housing but I could get an 8cm t25 housing (external wg) and port the housing as much as needed and still get that down low torque production and horsepower curve and I can just live with the tol end drop out. Because like you said the gsc cams will make a huge difference and a the little tricks and custom **** I have planned should make it awesome

As you know (Mac) the comp wheel is 55/78.2 and is 11 single blades (gtx style) the turbo is technically a te06h-25c. Banks turbo had it made for their diesel kits but people use the turbos on gas apps with decent results. I know just off the wheel size (its a 20g/25g hybrid as far as sizing... 20g inducer, 25g exducer) that it should make 400-450whp but I don't know what the power delivery will be like. Obviously I'll ceramic coat everything to help that but I can very easily and cheaply put a billet 25g (t67) compressor wheel and premachined housing plus a re balance for under 300 dollars