marc.ejay-twenty

first of all my setup on this day was...
-stock b16a
-fuel pressure ~44 psi at idle (line on)
-timing ~2 degrees retarded
-ngk bkr7e spark plugs
-NOS wet ~75 shot nitrous

notice the absence of the top part of the center electrode insulator on these plugs as well as missing part of the ground electrode:



this was the one plug in the best condition, just because it still had the insulator worn, but in tact:


i'm pretty this was the result of detonation, so i've added 2-4 additional degrees of retard and i got some ngk r5672a-8 (8 heat range) for a 2 step colder plug. do you guys think this will be enough? thanks

-marc

ATS*Mark

damn marc thats crazy , herd about your times at the track thats ****** quick dood! props..... 2 steps colder are good and gap them to like .30 or .28 . are you running a vafc or any way to see what your a/f ratio is at WOT??? you dont want to be leaner than 12:1

turbotypeR@SPEC

do you have a stock fuel pump?if so,with that shot you need a walbro gss342

marc.ejay-twenty

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hella_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">damn marc thats crazy , herd about your times at the track thats ****** quick dood! props..... 2 steps colder are good and gap them to like .30 or .28 . are you running a vafc or any way to see what your a/f ratio is at WOT??? you dont want to be leaner than 12:1</TD></TR></TABLE>

wutup biz

all i have is a fields sfc vtec...no a/f gauge or anything. oh and about the times...the e.t. sucked, but trapspeed tells the real story

yea im running a stock fuel pump and i think that's what im gonna upgrade next. is there anyone here running a stock fuel pump with a 75 shot?

-marc

XSIintegra

This is my run in with a Zex 75 shot when it went lean. It also shorted out the dist. when the plug burned, for some reason.

turbotypeR@SPEC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marcdogg816 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

is there anyone here running a stock fuel pump with a 75 shot?

-marc</TD></TR></TABLE>
i did in my wife's integra and it messed up the pistons

Wide Open Throttle

marc: my a/f gauge reads rich with a stock civic pump & 75 shot wet kit.

turbotypeR@SPEC

have you set your timing back any?

ATS*Mark

the fields doesnt give a number a/f reading i asume.... i sugest getting a walbro pump , and maybe some rc440's or 550s . the last thing you wanna do when forced induction is run lean.....you goin out to tap tomorow?? i might roll

marc.ejay-twenty

yea this time i've set the timing back about 4-6 degrees from stock...just rotated the dizzy back from stock. this is assuming it's like 1 degree of timing per millimeter right? i don't ahve a timing gun

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hella_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the fields doesnt give a number a/f reading i asume.... i sugest getting a walbro pump , and maybe some rc440's or 550s . the last thing you wanna do when forced induction is run lean.....you goin out to tap tomorow?? i might roll</TD></TR></TABLE>

no the fields doesn't read a/f. i rpolly won't make it to tap 2m night, but wong prolly will. you have an in tank walbro for sale? lol. let me know. peace

-marc

specie

could someone explain how a colder range spark plug function differently for a hotter range one? Does the cold range one have a shorter and thicker ground strap?

DRP SHP TECH

you need plugs with a shorter ground strap. conventional plugs with long ground straps is the main cause of your trouble. all that uneeded cylinder pressure is been changed into unused heat and is being trapped in that ground strap. with not enough material or time to transfer that heat into the cylinder head. you get a hot spot or whats called glow plugs when fuel is introduced into the cylinder and it meets mr white hot ground strap u get pre-ignition. and then you experienced first hand what can happen so i wont get into that. but try some zex plugs. you'll see how they differ from the ones your using. and please get some dyno time. if you have to guess about a/f ratios you've already got problems. oh and get at least a msd timing retard box. it will help keep un nessessary cylinder pressure down. an egt guage would help a bit to.

marc.ejay-twenty

the zex design looks pretty interesting. it has 3 short ground straps right? however, i've heard that they don't perform that well because they don't have a projected tip. i've also heard bad stories about them snapping. my main concern is about it not having a projected tip

does exhaust temp help measure a/f ratio? i've heard that using an a/f gauge to measure the ratio is pretty much useless because of the delay time. thanks

-marc

DRP SHP TECH

yes its true that most a/f gauges and egt gauges have some degree of delay. but they do give you some insight as to whats going on under the hood. for instance high egt readings might indicate your running a little leaner than you'd like. some people may argue that its a "too little, to late" kinda thing but running full speed is always better with at least one eye open than both closed. but its just my opinion.

marc.ejay-twenty

taken from clubsi.com:

Originally Posted by JoeB16 Simple physics and logic dictate these conclusions. What say you? Electricity, by its nature, flows along the path of least resistance. What does this mean exactly? It means that, generally speaking, multiple grounds such as the BOSCH +4 and Zex plugs are useless. Why? Simple. A. terminal B. ceramic insulation C. center electrode D. gap E. ground electrode Say this spark plug has multiple grounded electrodes, like a +4. Now say, it is in an engine and is about to fire. The spark energy flows down the center electrode, out into the gap and onto the closest (remember "path of least resistance"? ground. This pattern will then repeat over and over for the entire life of the spark plug. That means the spark will hit the same ground EVERY time unless the grounding becomes damaged or so corroded its proximity to the center electrode is no longer enough to make it the least restrictive path for the electricity. In that case it will move onto one of the other grounds. And that brings us to the only plus of having multiple grounded electrodes. Fact of the matter is though, unless you dont plan replacing your plugs between 100K mile intervals you will never need the extra grounds. This is one of the reasons why cars advertise "no tune ups before the first 100K miles". Personally, because I run nitrous, I change my plugs with every oil change. The same goes for platinum and iridium plugs. These dont offer better performance. They just last longer. Another "100K mile tune up" deal. Under normal driving conditions the center electrode made out of these harder materials will, of course last longer. Because as we all know its so costly to change spark plugs at 60K miles, this is a must have, right? Pfff. The ONLY reason why dealers recommend these plugs and why manufacturers put them in their cars is for that reasons and that reason alone. Now, for high compression, turbo, and or N20 applications PLATNUM AND IRIDIUM plugs ARE NOT GOOD. The center electrodes will actually crap out much faster then your standard core electrodes under those conditions, especially N20 applications. Ive seen many a nitrous'd car running Denzos pop a plug. Trust me on this one. And for the record ZEX SUCKS ***!!!! Yes, thats right. ESPECIALLY their spark plugs. How do I know this? I bought a set. Not only are they 2X as expensive as the NGKs I use now the crapped out on me. Three sub 15 second runs on brand new Zex plugs (on just a 50 shot mind you) resulted in one SEVERLY melted #3 plug. And I mean SEVERLY. All 3 ground electrodes were carbon coated, the center electrode AND the protective ceramic coating were melted and vaporized completely through. Thankfully there was no engine damage, but thats not the point. For a full year after that I ran the EXACT SAME set up with my NGKs, and had NEVER had a problem. Not once. Whats that mean? Its obviously not a mechanical or installation problem with the nitrous or fuel injection, rather its solely the fault of the plug. PIECE OF **** Plus Zex plugs are made in France. That should tell you enough. Oh, and what do I reccomend for Nitrous and turbo applications? NGK-BKR7E (8E's for apps that call for 2 steps colder over stock for Si's) thats what. 2 bucks each (high end) and are t3h b3st.

i'm not sure if this is correct or not cuz i know that when you put ur fingers on one of those lightning *****, the lightning flows in the direction of each individual finger. im somewhat confused...

-marc

ATS*Mark

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by marcdogg816 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the zex design looks pretty interesting. it has 3 short ground straps right? however, i've heard that they don't perform that well because they don't have a projected tip. i've also heard bad stories about them snapping. my main concern is about it not having a projected tip

does exhaust temp help measure a/f ratio? i've heard that using an a/f gauge to measure the ratio is pretty much useless because of the delay time. thanks

-marc</TD></TR></TABLE>

ive herd alot of bad things about the zex plugs.....ngk's gapped shorter should work fine , marc pm ryancivic2000 he as a built nitrous setup , ask him whatp lugs he runs and what gap... you might even be better with a .26 or .28 gap

Bailhatch

you didn't hear any pinging? also you can't tell A/f from egt unless you have a referance, which you don't. The EGT will rise under several conditions including lean, rich, retarded timing....

marc.ejay-twenty

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bailhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you didn't hear any pinging? also you can't tell A/f from egt unless you have a referance, which you don't. The EGT will rise under several conditions including lean, rich, retarded timing....</TD></TR></TABLE>

well, i couldn't hear much of anything cuz i was running open header at the track. i did hear some nasty pops and **** (sounded like backfire kinda) on my last run. was that pinging? nothing blew up though, and i'm gonna go outside in a couple hours and do a compression test

-marc

ATS*Mark

could have been detonation..... do a comp test and make sure everythings coo....then go get 2 step colder ngk's , gap them down , iforgot the gap but its ****** huge , like .46 or somthin , you want it down to like .28 . if you want a cheap digital a/f readout , get the apexi auto timer...i know a fuel non turbo guys running it. i run it and it will give you a number readout at any throttle position rather than a stoopid led light like the autometer guage(i have both autometer and the apexi) . the auto timer is like 70 bucks and its cool.

NOSpeed97

Those plugs look nasty but at least your engine escaped disaster.

This is a pic of my piston with a ZEX dry system at 75-shot:


-Stock D16Y7
-ZEX plugs
-Timing retared 4 degrees
-B&M FPR @ ~47 psi at idle
-3 gallons 91-octane mixed and 1 gallon 100-octance in tank
-I/H/E

I don't have a pic of my ZEX plugs but they weren't pretty. One thing I wish I had and I recommend getting is an EGT.

quickda6

ive heard some bad stories about the zex plugs. I use the ngk bkr7e for big shots(100+). this has a nice short, fat ground strap, and are only 2$ ea. stock #-6097

baphomet

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hella_JDM &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">could have been detonation..... do a comp test and make sure everythings coo....then go get 2 step colder ngk's , gap them down , iforgot the gap but its ****** huge , like .46 or somthin , you want it down to like .28 . if you want a cheap digital a/f readout , get the apexi auto timer...i know a fuel non turbo guys running it. i run it and it will give you a number readout at any throttle position rather than a stoopid led light like the autometer guage(i have both autometer and the apexi) . the auto timer is like 70 bucks and its cool.</TD></TR></TABLE>

or get a digital volt meter for &lt;$20. Why pay 70 for a turbo timer and not use it?

specie

How is a colder plug functionally different for a hotter range plug?

AzG35

What kind of fuel were you running? If you're running nitrous at the track, I wouldn't run anything under 100 octane. It gives you some more cushion if something does go wrong.

ion_four

The colder plug has more contact area between the base of the plug and the head, allowing it to transfer more heat out of the combustion chamber and, hopefully, into the cooling system. The part that is changed isn't readily visible, because it is around the ceramic insulator, inside the threads.