My OEM Parts Ls/Vtec Turbo Dyno sheet & video.
03-05-2006, 12:36 PM
#1
My OEM Parts Ls/Vtec Turbo Dyno sheet & video.
I recently put my car on the dyno just to see what it did.
I ended up running into ignition pickup issues after 10 runs or so, this was one of the runs that didnt have a bad pickup:
<FONT SIZE="3">Right click & save as to download the video. </FONT>
Runs with a bad ignition pickup:
Modified by mtber at 9:02 PM 3/5/2006
Modified by mtber at 9:03 PM 3/5/2006
Modified by mtber at 12:24 PM 3/6/2006
I ended up running into ignition pickup issues after 10 runs or so, this was one of the runs that didnt have a bad pickup:
<FONT SIZE="3">Right click & save as to download the video. </FONT>
Runs with a bad ignition pickup:
Modified by mtber at 9:02 PM 3/5/2006
Modified by mtber at 9:03 PM 3/5/2006
Modified by mtber at 12:24 PM 3/6/2006
03-05-2006, 01:19 PM
#4
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Re: (iGfrequency)
Are LS rods magically super weaker than GSR/B16 rods now???? So the answer is no, revving stock LS rods that high is just fine
There is no reason for your torque to drop off so dramatically in the top end. Did you advance your timing as rpms increased? Check your charge pipes for leaks/couplers for tears. Is your boost pressure remaining constant? Any signs of WG faliure?
Numbers arent bad, but that torque curve looks like it needs serious help
There is no reason for your torque to drop off so dramatically in the top end. Did you advance your timing as rpms increased? Check your charge pipes for leaks/couplers for tears. Is your boost pressure remaining constant? Any signs of WG faliure?
Numbers arent bad, but that torque curve looks like it needs serious help
03-05-2006, 01:47 PM
#6
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Re: (iGfrequency)
There is nothing wrong with revving LS rods to 8k. The extra lenght causing slightly more side load is nothing significant to say the least. Most people are using LS cranks now in their builds as with the LS crank you get more displacement allowing for significant torque gains. There is no reason why the rods will fail at 8k even in stock form. Now if it was revving to 8k and making 400 ftlbs of torque, then sure, there is a good chance they will fail. But 8k and 200ish ft lbs of torque, the failure would be attributed to poor assembly or poor tuning. Not a stress limits issue.
03-05-2006, 02:34 PM
#7
Re: (grubere)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by grubere »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are LS rods magically super weaker than GSR/B16 rods now???? So the answer is no, revving stock LS rods that high is just fine
There is no reason for your torque to drop off so dramatically in the top end. Did you advance your timing as rpms increased? Check your charge pipes for leaks/couplers for tears. Is your boost pressure remaining constant? Any signs of WG faliure?
Numbers arent bad, but that torque curve looks like it needs serious help</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you would READ:
I ended up running into ignition pickup issues after 10 runs or so, this was one of the runs that didnt have a bad pickup.
There is no reason for your torque to drop off so dramatically in the top end. Did you advance your timing as rpms increased? Check your charge pipes for leaks/couplers for tears. Is your boost pressure remaining constant? Any signs of WG faliure?
Numbers arent bad, but that torque curve looks like it needs serious help</TD></TR></TABLE>
If you would READ:
I ended up running into ignition pickup issues after 10 runs or so, this was one of the runs that didnt have a bad pickup.
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03-05-2006, 02:36 PM
#8
Re: (iGfrequency)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by iGfrequency »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">arent you worried about the stock rods breaking when you rev it past 7k?
did you replace the rod bolts or anything?
nice numbers tho</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its a stock ls bottom end, I am not worried about it
did you replace the rod bolts or anything?
nice numbers tho</TD></TR></TABLE>
Its a stock ls bottom end, I am not worried about it
03-05-2006, 03:14 PM
#9
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Re: (mtber)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If you would READ:
I ended up running into ignition pickup issues after 10 runs or so, this was one of the runs that didnt have a bad pickup.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
And thats supposed to mean something? Your horse power curve looks like butt because the torque is dropping off for no apparent reason. Am I supposed to ASSume that 10 runs later this problem was rectified? Was I at the dyno? Did you mention that the power production was significantly better after more tuning? Am I psychic?
I guess you'd prefer the typical honda-tech response "oooh ahh, you have a dyno sheet!!!"
PS: I've seen your finished dyno sheets before, they all have the same power drop at high rpms. I apologize for attempting to give you some actually decent advice. Its just clear you dont add ignition timing as rpms increase post peak torque thus causing this drop.
Example 1: http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=0
Example 2: http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=1
Example 3: http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=2
I ended up running into ignition pickup issues after 10 runs or so, this was one of the runs that didnt have a bad pickup.
</TD></TR></TABLE>And thats supposed to mean something? Your horse power curve looks like butt because the torque is dropping off for no apparent reason. Am I supposed to ASSume that 10 runs later this problem was rectified? Was I at the dyno? Did you mention that the power production was significantly better after more tuning? Am I psychic?
I guess you'd prefer the typical honda-tech response "oooh ahh, you have a dyno sheet!!!"
PS: I've seen your finished dyno sheets before, they all have the same power drop at high rpms. I apologize for attempting to give you some actually decent advice. Its just clear you dont add ignition timing as rpms increase post peak torque thus causing this drop.
Example 1: http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=0
Example 2: http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=1
Example 3: http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=2
03-05-2006, 03:40 PM
#10
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (grubere)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by grubere »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
PS: I've seen your finished dyno sheets before, they all have the same power drop at high rpms. I apologize for attempting to give you some actually decent advice. Its just clear you dont add ignition timing as rpms increase post peak torque thus causing this drop.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Adding timing with 300whp on a stock motor could be bad for the ringlands. Maybe he was playing it safe?
PS: I've seen your finished dyno sheets before, they all have the same power drop at high rpms. I apologize for attempting to give you some actually decent advice. Its just clear you dont add ignition timing as rpms increase post peak torque thus causing this drop.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Adding timing with 300whp on a stock motor could be bad for the ringlands. Maybe he was playing it safe?
03-05-2006, 03:54 PM
#11
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Re: (nsxmatt)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boosted Hybrid »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Peak VE is where the combustion chamber is at its greatest cylinder density. At this point, knock is most sensitive due to the maximum amount of cylinder density. At that point, timing advance needs to be kept to a minimum. If a knock meter is present on the EMS system you are tuning with, or you are able to shut down the point at which the engine commands the maximum amount of fueling, you can typically see slight knock on the knock logs or on the plugs.
Timing in relation to piston speed, is a pretty simple. With the increase of piston speed, i.e rpm, the burn period starts to get shorter and shorter due to the piston spending less and less time at TDC as the engine speed increases. Due to this, you can advance the ignition timing more and more as the rpm climbs. Essentially doing so, you can increase the VE (in the sense that you can increase torque production) of the engine without suffering onset of knock. Also, the density in the combustion chamber starts to diminish as peak VE drops and more advance can be run.</TD></TR></TABLE>
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...stion
So basically past peak torque, you are past where the engine is most likely to knock. Once you are beyond this point, you are able to be a bit more liberal with your ignition advance allowing increased VE and the torque curve to not fall on its face.
Timing in relation to piston speed, is a pretty simple. With the increase of piston speed, i.e rpm, the burn period starts to get shorter and shorter due to the piston spending less and less time at TDC as the engine speed increases. Due to this, you can advance the ignition timing more and more as the rpm climbs. Essentially doing so, you can increase the VE (in the sense that you can increase torque production) of the engine without suffering onset of knock. Also, the density in the combustion chamber starts to diminish as peak VE drops and more advance can be run.</TD></TR></TABLE>
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...stion
So basically past peak torque, you are past where the engine is most likely to knock. Once you are beyond this point, you are able to be a bit more liberal with your ignition advance allowing increased VE and the torque curve to not fall on its face.
03-05-2006, 03:58 PM
#12
iTrader: (2)
Re: (grubere)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by grubere »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...stion
So basically past peak torque, you are past where the engine is most likely to knock. Once you are beyond this point, you are able to be a bit more liberal with your ignition advance allowing increased VE and the torque curve to not fall on its face.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That doesn't mean keep pumping more timing in the motor to get an awesome tq/hp curve. Some cars just drop off on the top end because of limiting parts on the car. Exhaust, manifold and such things.
With issues with the dyno (which are a pain in the ***, I feel you) it is pointless to just randomly start throwing ignition timing in the car.
http://forums.evans-tuning.com...stion
So basically past peak torque, you are past where the engine is most likely to knock. Once you are beyond this point, you are able to be a bit more liberal with your ignition advance allowing increased VE and the torque curve to not fall on its face.</TD></TR></TABLE>
That doesn't mean keep pumping more timing in the motor to get an awesome tq/hp curve. Some cars just drop off on the top end because of limiting parts on the car. Exhaust, manifold and such things.
With issues with the dyno (which are a pain in the ***, I feel you) it is pointless to just randomly start throwing ignition timing in the car.
03-05-2006, 04:37 PM
#13
Re: (grubere)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by grubere »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">And thats supposed to mean something? Your horse power curve looks like butt because the torque is dropping off for no apparent reason. Am I supposed to ASSume that 10 runs later this problem was rectified? Was I at the dyno? Did you mention that the power production was significantly better after more tuning? Am I psychic?
I guess you'd prefer the typical honda-tech response "oooh ahh, you have a dyno sheet!!!"
PS: I've seen your finished dyno sheets before, they all have the same power drop at high rpms. I apologize for attempting to give you some actually decent advice. Its just clear you dont add ignition timing as rpms increase post peak torque thus causing this drop.
Example 1: http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=0
Example 2: http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=1
Example 3: http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=2</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree the power & tq falls off at higher rpms on the dyno sheet I posted.
There is no point in continuing to tune a vehicle if you are having ignition pickup issues & paying for dyno time.....
Concerning
http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=2
Did you bother to look at the spec sheets on the motor ?
The facts are, adding timing up top did not help this motor, it is running a stock exhaust manifold & a crushbent exhaust which I believe was holding the setup back.
Concerning:
http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=1
Maximum Break Torque was reached & I was happy with the results for a STOCK longblock.
Concerning:
http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=0
Again, this motor is on OEM internals, I added timing as needed until I felt we reached the goals the owner wanted. Stock ringlands are not something to get timing happy with....
Do you have any more questions to waste my time with ?
I guess you'd prefer the typical honda-tech response "oooh ahh, you have a dyno sheet!!!"
PS: I've seen your finished dyno sheets before, they all have the same power drop at high rpms. I apologize for attempting to give you some actually decent advice. Its just clear you dont add ignition timing as rpms increase post peak torque thus causing this drop.
Example 1: http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=0
Example 2: http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=1
Example 3: http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=2</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree the power & tq falls off at higher rpms on the dyno sheet I posted.
There is no point in continuing to tune a vehicle if you are having ignition pickup issues & paying for dyno time.....
Concerning
http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=2
Did you bother to look at the spec sheets on the motor ?
The facts are, adding timing up top did not help this motor, it is running a stock exhaust manifold & a crushbent exhaust which I believe was holding the setup back.
Concerning:
http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=1
Maximum Break Torque was reached & I was happy with the results for a STOCK longblock.
Concerning:
http://www.phearable.net/album...pos=0
Again, this motor is on OEM internals, I added timing as needed until I felt we reached the goals the owner wanted. Stock ringlands are not something to get timing happy with....
Do you have any more questions to waste my time with ?
03-05-2006, 04:37 PM
#14
Re: (93turbo16)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93turbo16 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">That doesn't mean keep pumping more timing in the motor to get an awesome tq/hp curve. Some cars just drop off on the top end because of limiting parts on the car. Exhaust, manifold and such things.
With issues with the dyno (which are a pain in the ***, I feel you) it is pointless to just randomly start throwing ignition timing in the car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow, someone whom actually has tuning experience responded with a proper response.
With issues with the dyno (which are a pain in the ***, I feel you) it is pointless to just randomly start throwing ignition timing in the car.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Wow, someone whom actually has tuning experience responded with a proper response.
03-05-2006, 04:59 PM
#15
Re: (grubere)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by grubere »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">http://forums.evans-tuning.com...stion
So basically past peak torque, you are past where the engine is most likely to knock. Once you are beyond this point, you are able to be a bit more liberal with your ignition advance allowing increased VE and the torque curve to not fall on its face.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree & I practice this method when I have dyno which is working properly....
I have updated the dyno sheet to a previous run which was a little nicer, but still could have been better.
Modified by mtber at 2:50 AM 3/6/2006
So basically past peak torque, you are past where the engine is most likely to knock. Once you are beyond this point, you are able to be a bit more liberal with your ignition advance allowing increased VE and the torque curve to not fall on its face.</TD></TR></TABLE>
I agree & I practice this method when I have dyno which is working properly....
I have updated the dyno sheet to a previous run which was a little nicer, but still could have been better.
Modified by mtber at 2:50 AM 3/6/2006
03-05-2006, 08:45 PM
#20
Re: (booja)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by booja »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">sounds like you surge right before it blows off</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah it does, I believe it has to do with my intake filter setup b/c I did not hear the sound running no filter.
Yeah it does, I believe it has to do with my intake filter setup b/c I did not hear the sound running no filter.
03-05-2006, 08:55 PM
#22
Honda-Tech Member
Re: (grubere)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by grubere »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Are LS rods magically super weaker than GSR/B16 rods now???? So the answer is no, revving stock LS rods that high is just fine</TD></TR></TABLE>
The rod bolts are.
The rod bolts are.
03-05-2006, 10:47 PM
#24
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grubere:
Generally, TQ begins to slowly start to fall after peak boost. THe rate at which it falls is dependant on too many things, but you will never get an increase in TQ after peak boost, unless you have boost creep.
Generally, TQ begins to slowly start to fall after peak boost. THe rate at which it falls is dependant on too many things, but you will never get an increase in TQ after peak boost, unless you have boost creep.
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