Tony the Tiger

After 3.5 trouble-free years and about 60000kms of hard driving, my MSD Pro Billet distributor has finally taken a dump. It wasn't a faulty ignition module, a bad coil, or wires... All the supporting components were still good and I was surprised of the outcome. The actual MSD distributor unit has worn out to the point that the main shaft has bent out of shape and the rotor was "wobbling"... I could free-wheel the distributor and it would keep spinning for 5 secs as if it was a dead GT Dual BB turbo..lol No bearing resistance at all and tons of shaft play... Odd nonetheless...

It took many steps to find out the issue because but I had an odd misfire that was only RPM based and has nothing to do with engine load/boost/throttle/AFR/timing... I did the the usual stuff, fresh plugs, fresh wires, installed my "spare" MSD coil and ignition module, and even redid a new basemap on ECTune just to rule out ANY software related issues; although I never had any ECTune software glitches, but I had to make sure. I would get a distinct misfire at 7500RPM and it would happen everytime. This happened two days ago when I was upping the boost to make more power on the dyno (dyno video posted below)...

I basically swapped to a low mileage genuine OEM Honda ITR distributor and the car smoothly right afterwards. It made 659 WHP pull @ 30 PSI up to 9200RPM.. But after repeated high power pulls, the stock Honda ignition felt weak and I had a very slight hint of misfire and didn't sound clean, as you can see this on my dyno video with the wideband gauge (you'll see it blank out right near redline indicating a misfire on the last clip)...

Now here's my dilemma... I don't want to buy another MSD Pro Billet just because I hate buying stuff twice. I always like to run something different each time just to expand my knowledge on perhaps other setups that work just as well. Plus, I got a feeling I won't be so lucky this time and end up getting a crappy MSD unit that would last me a few weeks (MSD quality control = owned).

Since I have retired my AEM EMS a year ago and switched to ECTune so I can support the software that I use for tuning on other people's cars, I can no longer go with a COP setup with M&W box with a chipped OBD-I...

Although I am running a genuine Honda OEM ITR distributor, I've purposely kept this distributor in 99% mint shape just for troubleshooting purposes. This dizzy has under 10k on the clock and I do not intend to run the car much on this mint OEM dizzy. At the same time, I do not want to shell out $750+ on a brand new OEM Honda unit.

What do you guys run in terms of aftermarket distributors? King dizzy? (I had really bad experiences with them BTW). RPM Partz that Xenocron sells? I am looking for some good options so I can rely on the distributor for clean crank/cam signals, and then I will switch all the guts out to OEM Honda components if needed.


Anyhow, here's a quick video of my little dyno session...

And lastly, I will eventually make a new thread regarding my twin turbo Honda journey a short while ago...lol

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=98RkD32-tKg

More videos and dyno graphs can be found on my website (still updating it though.. dyno graph should be ready later) .. http://www.dynamotorsports.ca/news.htm

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Here's the setup:

Dart Block /GSR Stroke
10.5:1 CR / 81.5mm 1.8L
Mild Port work (same head used when I was NA)
'01 ITR Cams / TODA Valve train
Eagle Rods with Custom Aged Bolts
GT4088R 0.95 A/R
Ramhorn Manifold
4" DP / 4" Exhaust
Ebay Intake Manifold w/ raised stacks
Supra TT 68mm throttlebody
Water/Meth System
12" x 24" x 4" FMIC
3" Charge Piping
Greddy Type-S BOV
OEM Honda distributor
NGK 11's, 0.020" gap

th3pwn3r

Perhaps it could be rebuilt? Just thinking about it from a savings point. Call up MSD and see what's up.

non-VTEC

how about just running the OEM dizzy with an external high powered coil?

what happend to the twins?

Kevin

What do you think about a new OEM dizzy housing paired with an M&W Pro 10 with an MSD coil to get rid of the oem ignitor and coil?

locash

Thats the combination we use on a lot of high HP cars, the OEM distributor housing with the M&W Pro 10 kit from T1, along with Hondata S300..

Tony the Tiger

OEM housings are really hard to find these days, and a new one goes for insane dollars. I was hoping maybe I can run an aftermarket dizzy that is proven to work well... But I need some members here with first hand experience with aftermarket housings who are cranking out big power numbers and plenty of run time.

That sounds like my next step... But again, the OEM dizzy is hard to find, especially finding one in good condition, and being sure that it isn't an aftermarket housing...

Running the external coil is okay for the stock ignitor at lower power levels; but from the patterns I see here, the moment you juice out big spark from an external coil through the stock Honda ignitor, the ignitor module takes a dump real quick.

The distributor looks pretty mangled... Maybe it could be rebuilt, but the MSD product support here in Canada kinda sucks and returns/repairs/warranty is really slow. My last warranty repair with the MSD DIS-4 took friggin 6 months...lol But I will call them up and see if they can do something about it.

96 GSR-T

If I wouldnt of just bought an AEM EMS, I would of ran a MW Pro-10 setup it seems to be the best method of increasing spark with the OEM Based ECU Stuff.

Any idea's as to why the torque output on your current setup is so low?

Tony the Tiger

The torque never fell off and redline is at 9200RPM. It's also the key to actually putting the power down on a FWD Honda on street rubber..lol

boosted91crx

no idea on the dizzy question, but i to wonder why such low torque numbers.

narfdanarf

That's the "laggiest" 4088r graph I've ever seen. Not that you really need any power <6k anyway though.

on topic: On my old setup I had a dizzy king distributor which made a little over 500whp at 29psi for 26,000 miles and revving to 9500 with no issues. A lot of people up here in the pacnorwest use them coupled with a OEM cap/rotor. I still have it and it works great, just moving on to bigger and better things.

96 GSR-T

Do you have a boost plot to post?

Teglove2

I know its not what you intend to do but maybe just getting the msd rebuilt and running your oem til it returns maybe the best way to go. I do love how you still own the integra and always continue to try different things. good luck to you

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I personally would get another 8488. You've had great success with it, as have I. Your choices are limited running the oem ecu anyways.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Hmm. Maybe I was lucky. I used the OEM distributor with a replaced ignitor and switched internal coil to an external coil using an MSD external cap/rotor, ($41) and an ignition system. Believe it or not, using an MSD 8253 external coil ($80) and a Mallory Digital 6 ignition box (only $200) did WONDERS on the 700whp S368 Honda that we did 6 months ago. I'll give it to SUmmit Racing, they can really make Power on a budget.

Here are the parts that I used Tony. PM me for more information on what I used

$40 from summitt part #8207


$41.95 MSD #82923 - for GS-R and Type R - external cap & rotor


$175.95 - Digital ignition system (Mallory digital 6 in Summit Racing's private label.. works the same>. you can even set rev limiter and costs 30% less than the MSD equivilant.



We did this YEARS ago with good results for under $500 and using up to a S475 on a Honda for over 900whp. The cars are still running off of the oem distributor they work well.. best of all, they are inexpensive

batboyvaj

I ran a summit digital box to an HVC-II coil and that thing ran beatifully at 480.

DVDr

iTrader: (2)

Not going to help your post, but its funny how last night I was reading on ignition setups and hit your thread abot 3 years when you purchased this and the discussion about the hall sensor.

I was thinking of going this route instead of COP ( have AEM EMS ). But for the amount of money it makes me think again about spending $ 700 on this billet setup.

Ill save this thread and see with what setup you end up going with.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

No kidding, I just kept it simple, but not too expensive. It works wonders, I'm tellin' ya

Turbo-charged

m&w pro 10 and whatever distributor you can get your hands on. i have never had an issue with a pro10 and some very questionable distributors.

theshodan.....as far as your luck with the parts you are using, its hit or miss. some cars will run fine with a set up like that, other simply wont. there is nothing worse than telling a customer to buy an ignition set up like that, and then have them have issues a couple months down the road. if you get into a M&w kit, you install it and forget it.

for what its worth we have made into the 700's on a bone stock ignition, doesnt mean every car is going to do it. i like the reliability and repeatability of the m&w stuff

Tony the Tiger

Thanks for the info, especially Shodan's because that sounds like something worth trying since it's really budget I will still buy (or rebuild) the MSD distributor because it has treated me well; but ever since the day I purchased the MSD, almost every unit I have dealt with had failed or had problems with it. It's hard to explain to friends and buddies why their MSD's are crapping out but mine is going strong, yet I was the one who recommended them...lol

The dyno looks laggy, but is as good as it can get for a GSR stroke 1.8L.. I wanted big power that's safe on pump gas, so I can't be running a GT35R or anything smaller for 550+ WHP on pump and meth. I don't do 1/4mile much, mostly highway pulls because the nearest drag strip is almost 2 hours away... Big power on pump gas has to come safe and sound, and I want the car to respond instantly when I hit the next gear (so I like turbos with larger turbines). Even this 658 WHP pull was done only on a 25% mix of 115 oct with pump 94 oct + meth just to keep this car as streetable as possible.

I've just checked several other GT4088R dyno's on Evan's site (courtesy of evans-tuning) and some of the 2.0L motors non-divided manifolds are hitting 350-380 lbft of torque at 6500RPM. Mine is about 6700-6800RPM with a 1.8L, so it looks right... I am still on ITR cams and a mild NA head (still rocking those TODA valvesprings and gears from 8 years ago...lol). This winter I am getting a new head + cams, so it should help the spool department.. I won't have to wind the turbo up to 30 PSI either to make 650 and should cut down spool time by a lot


Here's an attachment on the boost curve:

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I understand your point, but in the last 7 years with several hundred setups, outside going with an MSD Digital 7 box over the Summit racing (Mallory) equipment, I've never had a miss yet on mine or my customer's street setups. Now when you start going over 700whp, that's different entirely.

jetspeedz

i have always had good success with MSD and never an issue with them but maybe i have been lucky too. Ran it on a turbo gsr 10 years ago pushing over 550hp no issues at all. Running it now too and peakboost kit will be going in soon.

Dogginator

Focus on the technical discussion. There is useful information in here.