EF9_TryMe

B18c1 block, stock sleeves
81.5mm 10.0:1 Compression Ratio JE Pistons
Eagle H Beam rods
Stock b16 head w/ GSR Cams

I can not illustrate a proper conclusion here by taking a glimpse at these spark plugs.

I do a WOT pull, shut the car off right as soon as I hit 8k, and pull over to the side
of the road to analyze the condition of the fuel ring, and ground strap. First thing that
comes to my mind is all this splatter of white around the fuel ring ? Right behind or around
that splatter you can see the dark colored soot. Should the splatter of that white stuff
just be ignored, and concentrate more on the actual coloring presence of the fuel ring ?



Too hot maybe ? with that kind of timing.

My AFR's look alright 11.1-11.50 during WOT and I'm only tuning up to wastegate pressure.
(5-6 lbs.)

Here is the first timing map I have set up in which I didn't feel comftorable with. I think it
was a little too aggressive because I saw a lot of that red stuff ontop of that ground strap
when I had this map enabled. I think it was a little too much for the low cam map.
(Keep in mind, I'm focusing on the low cam map only for now.)



Maybe I was too paranoid or something, or maybe based on my experience I didn't know if this was ideal for this setup on 5 lbs. Everytime I did a pull it felt like pieces of the
insulation, wrapped around the electrode tip just kept breaking off. As a fix, I back down
the timing to this...



with a couple of pulls and here are the results ? Am I focusing on the red
splatter on the ground strap ?





I only want to make 420whp with this setup on a sc34 with pump anyways.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

You should be using a #8 heat range plug.

Jimmynitro

From whAt I can see on the ground strap looks like mayb to much advance looks like line is below the bend. You really need a magnifier to read them properly. What plugs r u using? Didn't see. Mayb I over looked it,

blackeg

you need to do this with a new set of plugs.

also, im not sure why u are worrying about the low cam map only if you are making pulls to 8000. quick glance appears that you dont have too much timing in the map, providing the distributor had a timing gun put on it and its not advanced/retarded.

it almost looks like crap from using cheap gas....

EF9_TryMe

What gas company for 93 pump gas would you guys recommend using consecutively ?

Also, I am using ngk r's bkr7e

Well, heres the thing. I kind of want to squeeze in the most torque output as possible when I go dyno tune it, then switch over to Vtec at a certain point and see what happens from there.

If I switch over to a colder plug don't I have to retune the entire ign map again ?

mrbsponge

First is the car positiveky sync'd as far as ignition goes? If so were the,results normal? Second that timing map helps but whats important is the ignition advance tab, or ignition max limitations, or are they disabled? If they are enabled & you have 10 degrees limitation then it could be 10 more than your table.

Secondly I would start with a new set of plugs with each new rom your trying. Not sure but from the pic it damn near looks like rust? Ive tuned many a' e85 honda & havent had any chalky results like those. Have you tested the ethanol content in your fuel? With a solid ethanol content & particularly well prepped motors ive seen as much as 3 degrees more timing than some racefuels we use

EF9_TryMe

Kind of a newb question, but how exactly do you test ethanol content in the fuel ?

Is there some type of tester you have to use ? I should try to avoid that stuff as much as
possible.

Positively syncd, yes. I have synced it from the start when I began tuning a basemap. I will recheck it tomorrow.

As far as Disabling any ignition corrections go .. what exactly is ignition advance limitations?
I have never seen that in eCtune before.
I disable any hidden ign corrections after 700-800mbar before I begin tuning. Some say the call those factory hidden ignition corrects.

Did a little bit of research after you guys have mentioned Gas quality. I took that into concern, and found out that
chevron happens to be the best one out there as far as pump gas goes. Saw this on a different mazda forum I believe.

The plugs are going to get replaced tomorrow and I will do about 4-5 pulls WOT for each ignition map and compare the two.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

Well your using too hot of a plug for the level of compression you have, bkr8e is what you should be using.

EF9_TryMe

Cool, I'll go ahead and switch those over right away.

mrbsponge

you can also use stock# 4554 form carquest they are "racing" 8s

EF9_TryMe

This afternoon I was lucky to pick up a set of ngk r5672a-8's locally, from a local auto
parts store. It's a non resistor copper plug, with a heat range of 8. After a little bit of datalogging fun on the express way, it seems that the timing mark on the ground strap
can be analyzed compared to my old NGK R 7's I had.

My question is: At about 4.4k-4.6k(sc34, 63 ar), I start going up above atmo, and I wonder how much timing can I advance when this transition occurs ? Some people say with the setup that I have, start off with 27-30. I kind of want to play it safer then that.

Once vtec hits, I can add a lot more timing then what's already displayed in the low cam map, correct ?



According to my map, my ignition value doesn't increase by that much from the low cam to vtec
cross over. It only bumps itself by 2 degrees, maybe I can add a little more timing with a couple
more added pulls and read the plug ?

Plus, do I have to do multiple pulls and then one final harsh pull and shut the car off
to get a better reading on the spark plugs ground strap for timing advance ?

sicones

To read plugs you need a new set. Those plugs posted just look very old. Also, avoid using non-resistor racing plugs they cause noise and interference to feed back into the ECU. There is no benefit to using them.

EF9_TryMe

So avoid using "NON" resistor plugs ? What do you mean interference back to the ECU ?

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

If i may ask, why are you using racing plugs? Stock ignition system, standard style plugs my man.

BKR8EIX is what you should be using if you go with iridiums

blackeg

im using those 4554's with good success on stock ignition and a decent amount of power

EF9_TryMe

Spawne, it's what my tuner preferred last year. But it's too late, I already started
blowing the poor thing up. :/

Updated:

I think I made a rod knock during tuning the low cam map to redline(8K) :[
Theres a really bad oil pressure drop from 9-10 to 5, and my light has been blinking on and off when I coast down to a stop. I did a compression test, and compression is perfect.
Really pissed off! Hell, you live and learn. :/

Thank you for the info guys, and chiming in. Very well appreciated, and glad to see that the help is coming in, and being taken from the experts. This ofcourse is my first time
boosting a car, and tuning it. So not only do I have one issue, but I am standing in between two rocks now that are very difficult for me to move on due to a lack of hands on experience.

The old spark plugs were history, my old tuner that had tuned my b16 last year recommended the NGK 7's I had. I don't know why, but don't ask me. He even managed to pull 14 lbs before
the thing blew up. Lol. I went out to a local auto parts store, and copped me a set of ngk non resistor copper plugs (ngk r5672a-8.)

I gapped the new plugs down to .020-.025, in between that range, and it seems that they pulled nice up
to wastegate spring pressure. Now when i turned the boost up, and did a pull up to 10 psi
the car rev'd up fine until it came up to about 6-7k it kind of launched itself even further, it didn't misfire.

After a couple of those runs, I threw code 22(vtec pressure solenoid valve.) I'm thinking that my solenoid
is starting to take a crap, because it only happens at a certain time, not always.

While doing a couple of pulls I was able to record this!






I think the detonation/pre-ignition issue that lead to the rod knock failure/low oil pressure came from the old plugs(ngk r 7's) while advancing a **** load of timing in low cam map while reving high.
Yeah, I didn't know what I was doing. I was datalogging runs to see the difference in seconds how long it took to get from one rev range to the other. ****, time to take the motor back out,
rebuild it over the winter. I kind of want to salvage the crank so I really don't want to drive the car anymore. The rod knock isn't that audible, but it can be heard, and felt at the same time
when resting a ear on the top of a pry bar and listening for the noise.

EF9_TryMe

Spawne, it's what my tuner preferred last year. But it's too late, I already started
blowing the poor thing up. :/

Updated:

I think I made a rod knock during tuning the low cam map to redline(8K) :[
Theres a really bad oil pressure drop from 9-10 to 5, and my light has been blinking on and off when I coast down to a stop. I did a compression test, and compression is perfect.
Really pissed off! Hell, you live and learn. :/

Thank you for the info guys, and chiming in. Very well appreciated, and glad to see that the help is coming in, and being taken from the experts. This ofcourse is my first time
boosting a car, and tuning it. So not only do I have one issue, but I am standing in between two rocks now that are very difficult for me to move on due to a lack of hands on experience.

The old spark plugs were history, my old tuner that had tuned my b16 last year recommended the NGK 7's I had. I don't know why, but don't ask me. He even managed to pull 14 lbs before
the thing blew up. Lol. I went out to a local auto parts store, and copped me a set of ngk non resistor copper plugs (ngk r5672a-8.)

I gapped the new plugs down to .020-.025, in between that range, and it seems that they pulled nice up
to wastegate spring pressure. Now when i turned the boost up, and did a pull up to 10 psi
the car rev'd up fine until it came up to about 6-7k it kind of launched itself even further, it didn't misfire.

After a couple of those runs, I threw code 22(vtec pressure solenoid valve.) I'm thinking that my solenoid
is starting to take a crap, because it only happens at a certain time, not always.

While doing a couple of pulls I was able to record this!






I think the detonation/pre-ignition issue that lead to the rod knock failure/low oil pressure came from the old plugs(ngk r 7's) while advancing a **** load of timing in low cam map while reving high.
Yeah, I didn't know what I was doing. I was datalogging runs to see the difference in seconds how long it took to get from one rev range to the other. ****, time to take the motor back out,
rebuild it over the winter. I kind of want to salvage the crank so I really don't want to drive the car anymore. The rod knock isn't that audible, but it can be heard, and felt at the same time
when resting a ear on the top of a pry bar and listening for the noise.

I also have a oil pressure gauge from AEM that let's me know what the pressure is. Last week it was at about 11-12 idle.
While messing around with the ignition system and doing pulls this labor day weekend, I have dropped the pressure down to 4-5.
Car still idles, but I Believe I do hear a knock coming from cylinder number 1. I'm almost positive.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

Ah sorry to hear about the loss man, i was gonna comment that you need to buy a plug that already comes with a lower gap because you are bending that ground strap down way beyond what its supposed to be. What rods you have in this?

EF9_TryMe

It's okay Spawne, you live and learn. Thank you for your time though, and everyone as well. :/

What are the cons of bending the ground strap of that cold plug down like that ?

These plugs I believe came with a .025-.030 gap.

Eagle H beam rods with ACL Rod Bearings.

Spawne, what do you think about those plugs though after that run ? Those are the new ones I purchased, they are the NGK V Power r5672a-8.

Also, is it bad trying to rev down to 8k while pulling a lot of timing in the low cam map ?

I have a whole build thread that I can post.

https://honda-tech.com/forums/drag-racing-36/ef9_trymes-journey-high-11s-race-build-3049141/

There's also a link to my b16 build in there, my first build ever. That's when I was new to the Honda Game, and fresh off the boat.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

Bending the strap that far down on an angle kills flame propagation outward from the center of the plug. That's why I usually run fine wire plugs, and usually try to buy the plugs with the closest gap possible from the factory, you can typically do this by adjusting the code of the plug when you order it. For instance any NGK plug with -11 after the end means 1.1mm gap.

I can say that it looks like your in the right heat range now, but its hard to make out what im seeing on the plug as far as ignition timing. Ideal timing tends to look like this. That black mark you see right above the white on the strap can move up or down on the strap depending on how your timing is set. Dead center typically is where you want to be. Your maps dont look overly aggressive in timing to be honest, but I am more familar with non vtec then vtec timing maps. Best person to talk to is derek dunbar (ALL MOTOR on here) about these types of things. Especially running ectune.

EF9_TryMe

So wait a minute.

Any NGK plug with the number all the way at the end means the actual gap ?
I thought that number symbolized a certain heat range. :/ I guess I made another booboo! >_< Darn it!!

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

EF9_TryMe

Perfect!! Always wondered what it's like solving hieroglyphics, lol.

Now it makes a lot more sense.

Question: is it possible to have low oil pressure due to bad lost motion assemblies in a vtec head after Reving the motor down to 8k on the low cam map? Because I did it a pretty good
Never of times and I think I messed them up. My vtec map crosses over in ectune during
Real time, but it feels like it kicks in at the very end like 6-7 because the car misses
Real quick and jerks forward. I also get code 22 vtec pressure valve 90% of the time this
Happens.

Sent from my iPhone.

kyden

not really.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

You should never have low oil pressure regardless of what the conditions are. The oil pump is a mechanical drive, it spins in relationship to the crank speed, and pressure vary's depending on bearing clearances on the mains and rods. If you break something, oil pressure goes out the window.