AaronJ

So i got my turbo install done and went down to the dyno to get it tuned today. Everything was looking good with the part throttle stuff, but as soon as he started to get into the harder throttle stuff the car began breaking up around 4500 rpm. We tried everything for several hours, and we even switched to BRE, but the same thing happened in the exact same spot every time. It would break up really bad for about 1500 rpm, but then it would clear up a little. Even though it cleared up it still made really weak power. We decided that i probably had ignition problems and called it a day.

When i got my car off of the dyno i decided to take it for a little spin to see how it would drive in part throttle conditions. It drove pretty good, so i wanted to see what the breakup felt like. I put the car in third and went WOT, 4500 came and it was smooth, 5000 came and it was still smooth, 5500 came and the tires freaking broke loose! I am so confused as to why the car ran like **** on the dyno, but it runs great off of it. Is it possible that some of the stuff he had hooked up to my plug wires or my distributer inferfered with something? He did grab the distributor while the car was running and it shocked the hell out of him.

Here is the dyno graph with AFR


And here is the dyno with Boost pressure


Setup:
-B16 stock everything
-Log mani
-6" jrc ic
-2.5" ic pipes
-3" dp to 3" kteller, no restrictions
-Tial 38, open dump past the oil pan
-450cc dsm injectors
-Tuning on old school Hondata STAGE 3b
-Obd0 pw0 ecu

off of the dyno the car felt like an easy 250whp car

nvmyb20hatch

hmm...i know one some coil on plug(mitsu) setups the dyno pickups would interfere with the cam and/or crank signals and cause misfires, i guess its possible on your car the pickups were interfering with the distributor pickups and throwing off the signals. just an educated guess, though ive never seen it on a distributor car. good luck

slowhonduh93

numbers suck for 7.5 psi... should be around 230-240whp... and your af should be a little smoother...

full Circling

Go to a different tuner that knows what he's doing.

093turbo16

iTrader: (2)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowhonduh93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">numbers suck for 7.5 psi... should be around 230-240whp... and your af should be a little smoother... </TD></TR></TABLE>

Where is vtec set at? Are you sure the cam timing is on?

blackeg

different tuner will help.

your vtec is too low, looks like around 4500. also check timing both on the cams and at the dist.

the afr should be closer to 12:1 where its 11:1, and where you creep up to mid 12's i think mid 11's should do it... basically try to keep it at like 11.8:1 across the board in boost.

do you have colder plugs? whats the gap? what do your timing maps look like? i think we need a little more information to be able to be more helpful

oh ya, have you done a compression test?

AaronJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowhonduh93 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">numbers suck for 7.5 psi... should be around 230-240whp... and your af should be a little smoother... </TD></TR></TABLE>

did you even read the post?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blackeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">different tuner will help.

your vtec is too low, looks like around 4500. also check timing both on the cams and at the dist.

the afr should be closer to 12:1 where its 11:1, and where you creep up to mid 12's i think mid 11's should do it... basically try to keep it at like 11.8:1 across the board in boost.

do you have colder plugs? whats the gap? what do your timing maps look like? i think we need a little more information to be able to be more helpful

oh ya, have you done a compression test?</TD></TR></TABLE>

My tuner knows what he is doing, im not going to say his name...but he's been in the business for a while. Any change we made in hondata were just not responding whatsoever. I was just thinking a little bit ago and i realized it was probably his emulator ******* up. His laptop was having troubles recognizing it all day, but we never made a run with an actual burned chip in, but when i got home and drove it we had a chip in, so that could be why it was running good

I do have colder plugs, heat range 7, gapped to .028. And thats not vtec where that peak is, we tried vtec from 3000-6500 but that peak stayed their constantly.

Just to get this straight, the car ran like complete **** and sounded like a helicopter under water, just for the people who think that i'm just "low on power"

AaronJ

I have a first gen b16, what car should i buy a dizzy cap for?

blackeg

hehe shoulda drove it right back on the dyno. it sounds like a very likely problem with the romulator. try and see if you can get on a dyno for baseline runs with the chip in. good luck dude

AaronJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blackeg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">hehe shoulda drove it right back on the dyno. it sounds like a very likely problem with the romulator. try and see if you can get on a dyno for baseline runs with the chip in. good luck dude </TD></TR></TABLE>

i would of but i didn't test drive the car until i got home...which is a 3 hour drive from the dyno

Do you guys think that he should finish fine tuning my car for free?! i paid 375 for the half *** tune that i bought, and i am going to have to drive another 3 hours there and back to get it retuned

boosted k20

u gotta pay up. no ones gonna retune for free..... the most he will do is give u a break on the re-tune

D-meet07

that suxs

building boost

the car is under load on the dyno because you it is pulled and strapped down so the power is all goin to the floor. if there's something wrong with the motor, it will break up on the dyno, not on the street. If it's a fuel or ignition breakup then you would feel it on the street... do a leakdown and compression test. i don't think u mentioned whether the motor is built or not.

HiProfile

So you say your tuner knows whats up just because he's been doing it a while. He can't get a car to stop breaking up on the dyno, and can't get his software to work. Sounds like he's used to tuning stock cars with FPRs only

If you can find a tuner that's used to that old ems, you may find what power the motor is good for. IMO if the car runs like **** before hitting the dyno, its the owner's fault for a bad tuning session. If it runs fine before, then they still can't get it working, its ~90% the tuner for not being able to figure it out. He should also be able to street tune it, and have an ear sensitive enough to avoid detonation when doing the timing.

To "building boost" above, he said its stock everything. I may be wrong though - if it takes till 5500rpm to spool up, its either a poor decision on the turbo, or he's planning on making 600whp later with that same turbo. If his plans are to keep it stock, I'd suggest a much smaller turbo still capible of 300whp, like a 60trim t3 .63ar stg3 wheel and a map sensor upgrade.

Schister66

WTF?? That sucks Aaron....i know that (tuner's name) is capable of tuning your car perfectly, but i wonder whats going on.....

bump to help a buddy out!`

full Circling

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by building boost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">the car is under load on the dyno because you it is pulled and strapped down so the power is all goin to the floor. if there's something wrong with the motor, it will break up on the dyno, not on the street. If it's a fuel or ignition breakup then you would feel it on the street... do a leakdown and compression test. i don't think u mentioned whether the motor is built or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>


ehhhhhhh...

ehh?

Hybrid96EK

You mentioned the shock deal witht he car running.... The only times I have ever been shocked by a running dist is when they had cracked caps. Its very possible from the sounds of it that you have a cracked cap. Perhaps the spark is shorting out on something outside the cap as it arcs and thus explains the problem on the dyno? I would change the cap and inspect the rotor also. Also, check the wires. Its all worth a shot and could very easily explain a "low power" pull.

b18sihatch

looks like a retune will be in the works

AaronJ

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You mentioned the shock deal witht he car running.... The only times I have ever been shocked by a running dist is when they had cracked caps. Its very possible from the sounds of it that you have a cracked cap. Perhaps the spark is shorting out on something outside the cap as it arcs and thus explains the problem on the dyno? I would change the cap and inspect the rotor also. Also, check the wires. Its all worth a shot and could very easily explain a "low power" pull.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah i'm pretty sure it needs a new cap, so im going to buy one and a rotor ASAP. It did shock me about 7 months ago the day i made an all motor pass of 14.8 at 98, so i didn't think anything was wrong...onced i get that replaced i will go back for a retune and let you guys know whats up...but i still think that his emulator was acting up, i guess we will find out.

Btw-the turbo is a T3/T04e, 57 trim, .63ar

Enzo-Racing

I would try removing whatever he installed to get a tach signal and see what that does. There's definitely something going on as you can see on the dyno graph.

le0ftw

Since its most likely ignition issues this is a bit off topic question. are you running a wideband in your car.