H22NOSACC

Well I took my car on the dyno(mustang dyno) a few days ago and the engine blew while the tech was doing the first nitrous pull. We weren't doing tunning it was basically supposed to be three pulls. One off the bottle and two on. The first N/A pull was fine but the tech was having trouble matching my Apexi RSM tach with his dyno(he said the RSM and V-AFC were interfering with ihis dyno) So he told me he didn't want to spray the nitrous because he was affraid to hit the rev limiter. I told him not to worry about it because I have a fuel safty cut installed, and that the RSM will flash acting as a shift light and thats when he should let off. He said fine but that he wanted me to sit in the car for the pull and tap him on the shoulder when I wanted him to abort the pull. He asked me how to activate the nitrous and I showed him the arming switch and said it will activate on WOT.

He tried to do the pull in FORTH gear starting at a speed of 35mph (2200 RPM). Just before he started the pull I looked to see if he had the nitrous armed and he did, me not knowing anything about pulling on a dyno, thought that it was to low to hit the nitrous(I never tried a pull like that on the street) but figuring he knew best and chose to say nothing. From the video I have of it, you can hear the car dentonate and lift on the dyno the second he hits the gas.(the dentonation couldn't be heard in the car because of all the outside noise) This is when I suspect the most damage was done. He continued with the pull and stopped when smoke started comming from the hood around 6500rpm(haven't figured out were it came from yet but there was oil everywhere).

So what do you guys think???????????

Some other info that might help you make a more informed response:

1)My cars set-up had been tried atleast 20 times on the street with no problems at all.
2)The shop just got the dyno up and running two weeks ago. And the tech had just finished a two month course. So he's only had 2 weeks hands-on experience running cars.
3)The engine that blew was a jdm h22a, 75shot of nitrous, wet kit, fuel pump, basically all the bolt ons and tunned at another shop last year.
4)Compression was checked a month ago, and on my cheap tester it was 200 accross the board.


Modified by H22NOSACC at 3:02 AM 10/6/2004

Mase

i highly doubt the vafc interfered with his dyno.

secondly did he do anything w/ the ignition timing. can u retard the distributor on your model h22?

last, did he even watch your AFR? thats if he had a wideband on the car.

pull your plugs, get some pics of them, im sure it probably detonated and broke something.

H22NOSACC

Sorry I should have said that it wasn't hooked up to the wideband. I know all to well the the motor is cooked we did a compression test after the dyno:
125
250
0
250

I didn't see him mess with any of my settings at all or my car at all the only thing he did in the engine compartment was hook up to the cylinder 1 plug wire. The set-up that was on his dyno was the set-up that has worked for me on the track/street.

I'm basically looking to see if there anything that I've mention that would lead you guy's to believe that the tuner cost me the motor, or if you think it was just **** luck my motor blew.

psileepR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i highly doubt the vafc interfered with his dyno.

secondly did he do anything w/ the ignition timing. can u retard the distributor on your model h22?

last, did he even watch your AFR? thats if he had a wideband on the car.

pull your plugs, get some pics of them, im sure it probably detonated and broke something. </TD></TR></TABLE>


Thats what i was thinking. Did he even monitor AFR through the pull? Even with noise the dyno operator should have been able to distinguish knock and back off. If its too loud then wear ear muffs. that will be able to drown out a lot of the exhuast noise so you can hear the motor.

Mase

well i dont know why he didnt have the wideband on...

but honestly man, if he wasnt tuning it, why would it be his fault it blew regardless?

96y7turbo

what rpm<U></U> did he start the dyno pull at?? from what i know you should not activate nitrous under 3000rpm... 35mph in 4th gear could be to low of an rpm but i dont have a 5 speed so i dont know what rpm that would be... i say if he turned it on before 3000 rpm it could be his fault, there is to much cyl pressure and to much timing advance down that low and he should know that..... if it was over 3000 then im leaning toward the cars fault..

H22NOSACC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mase &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i dont know why he didnt have the wideband on...

but honestly man, if he wasnt tuning it, why would it be his fault it blew regardless?

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well if you read the post completely and nothing that he did sticks out as being odd or wrong. Then I can accept that.

There are just somethings that I mention in the first post that leads me to believe that it was inexperience that killed my motor. Like I said this set-up was tried and true.

H22NOSACC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96y7turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what rpm<U></U> did he start the dyno pull at?? from what i know you should not activate nitrous under 3000rpm... 35mph in 4th gear could be to low of an rpm but i dont have a 5 speed so i dont know what rpm that would be... i say if he turned it on before 3000 rpm it could be his fault, there is to much cyl pressure and to much timing advance down that low and he should know that..... if it was over 3000 then im leaning toward the cars fault.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

35mph would be in the 2500-3500 range on my tranny. Lets put it this way i'm barely out of first gear at that speed.

Tyler H

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by H22NOSACC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">We weren't doing tunning it was basically supposed to be three pulls. </TD></TR></TABLE>

That's all you needed to say. If the dyno operator was not making any adjustments, then how can the motor blowing up be his fault?

Tyler

H22NOSACC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Tyler H &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's all you needed to say. If the dyno operator was not making any adjustments, then how can the motor blowing up be his fault?

Tyler</TD></TR></TABLE>

It might not be....this is what i'm trying to figure out.

Tyler H

Sorry, let me rephrase that. It is not the dyno operator's fault. It sucks it happened and I feel sorry for you, but the dyno operator is not liable. You took your car to see how much power it was making and the operator tested it in the condition/tune that it was brought in.

Tyler

accord387

damn im sorry to hear man, but its not his fault like others are saying. he even said he didnt want to put it on and you insisted on him doing it. Good luck getting another motor.

twkdCD595

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 96y7turbo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what rpm<U></U> did he start the dyno pull at?? from what i know you should not activate nitrous under 3000rpm... 35mph in 4th gear could be to low of an rpm but i dont have a 5 speed so i dont know what rpm that would be... i say if he turned it on before 3000 rpm it could be his fault, there is to much cyl pressure and to much timing advance down that low and he should know that..... if it was over 3000 then im leaning toward the cars fault.. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I would tend to agree. sounds like he loaded it up in 4th gear at too low a rpm/ speed... which definately would be very hard on the motor.

he should have known better, but I highly doubt you will get them to take/ prove responsibility for anything. btw did you sign any paperwork before dyno'ing?

btw I have taken apart a motor spraying this way by accident and thats how I know... from experience.

H22NOSACC

More opions welcome

m R g S r

My opinion. . Not his fault at ALL. I would be pissed if I were in your shoes, but **** happens.

JalopySiR

I'm no nitrous expert, but I am positive you can't/shouldn't engage nitrous below 3K rpm. 35 in 4th sounds a bit low... If you heard it lugging, then it should not have been floored/activated at that point.

twkdCD595

if you were hearing it pinging, it was probably detonating nearer to TDC or even slightly after TDC... which mostly will burn up the pistons and/ or break/ lift the ring land from the pistons.

unfortunately there is probably not much you can do that is more detrimental to an engine than detonating it... short of attacking it violently with a big hammer or driving it w/o oil that is.

GDM Z28

If he wanted to do 4th gear at 35mph why didn't you tell him not to spray until after 3k rpms? BTW you said 4th at 35mph is 2500-3500rpms..well which is it? If its 3500rpms then it isn't his fault.

crispydee

When i had mine done they would not engage the NOS til 5000 rpm.

H22NOSACC

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by civicflnum1 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If he wanted to do 4th gear at 35mph why didn't you tell him not to spray until after 3k rpms? BTW you said 4th at 35mph is 2500-3500rpms..well which is it? If its 3500rpms then it isn't his fault. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Read my first post again. I state the reason why I did specify the RPM

Seeing how I don't have my car right now I asked some people in the prelude section to check for me 2 people said its 2200rpm.