JoePSI

I'm looking for personal expirience here and expert advice. This is long i know... sorry.

First off, I've read many articles on how to properly break-in an engine, I'm not asking wether or not I should break it in by instantly beating the crap out of it or slowly with a 50% throttle for 1500miles,etc.

I've read MotoMan's article, Earl's, and Jeff's from IB.. aswell as searched through numerous threads on H-T for the last two days.

I've come to the conclusion that the proper way is to seat the rings within 20minutes with hard driving. Thats decided. Now heres the issue I'm having...

The car is currently getting rebuilt with the following setup:

Block: B18C1 81.5mm
bored,decked
balanced&polished crank
9.8:1 CP
Eagle Rods
ACL bearings
ARP headstuds
OEM headgasket
Full rebuild kit (all new gaskets,seals,etc)
New oem oil pump & water pump
Moroso oil pan

Head: B18C1
3-Angle
milled
Supertech b16 springs & ti retainers
Supertech valves (stock size, stock comp.)
Port matched VictorX manifold w/ Hondata gasket

Misc:
Walbro 255HP
Precision 780cc Injectors
Hondata S200b
PLX-300 Wideband

I don't think it matters but heres the turbo kit:
Spoolin Log manifold
t3/t04e 57trim .63 a/r
2.5'' spoolin DP
3'' Kteller exhaust
38mm wastegate (.5bar)
hks ssqv bov
2.5'' ic piping
spearco ic
profec B boost controller


Compression of engine going from stock 10.1 (stock usdm gsr) to 9.8 roughly, I understand this is just an estimate, and could have been changed when the decked/milled etc. Regardless. I will be watching this with a plx wideband.

My main concern is:
How off should I expect my A/F ratios to be on a stock USDM GSR ecu with stock 240cc injectors. This is WITHOUT the turbo, will it be driveable? Then put the turbo on with a basemap and drive it 4 hours (staying out of boost) to my tuner and get it tuned.

Or would it be better to heat cycle the engine (just to make sure everythings ok) with the turbo kit on it (this includes S200 with a basemap and 780cc injectors) then transport the car to my tuner (4 hours away) via a trailer and break it in on the dyno/street tuning?

Thanks....



Modified by JoePSI at 2:10 PM 4/5/2007

Ludman95

I would do the latter, just put everything on and trailer it to the dyno. Doing it this way you only have one dyno fee also.

LSVTECTURBO-EG

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Ludman95 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I would do the latter, just put everything on and trailer it to the dyno. Doing it this way you only have one dyno fee also. </TD></TR></TABLE>

X2

urbansi

I personally dont like the idea of breaking in a motor on a dyno, i would rather put the motor through a few paces before beating the **** out of it, including changing the oil once or twice and making sure everything is leak free and such.

But thats just me...

JoePSI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by urbansi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I personally dont like the idea of breaking in a motor on a dyno, i would rather put the motor through a few paces before beating the **** out of it, including changing the oil once or twice and making sure everything is leak free and such.

But thats just me...</TD></TR></TABLE>

Agreed but how do you properly break in a completely rebuild and UNTUNED engine? How safe would it be for me to use the oem ecu and injectors (with headers not turbo) and break it in atleast for 150 miles changing the oil, oil filter, and spark plugs at 20 and then again at 150?

urbansi

Well for my car i am just going to use my old tune on Neptune with the same injectors and ****, th eonly that changed in my setup is the bore and turbo setup, so i am not that worried about it.

But i dont have some big name like the other people that do this **** for a living so...

GetawayInMoscow

Break it in on the dyno, there is no reason not to.

Start it up, make sure it runs, if it does than break it in and tune it on the dyno.

Or get a wideband, a basemap and break it in on the basemap.

GetawayInMoscow

Just read the whole thread. You will be fine with the stock ecu for just driving around, you have a wideband so just keep an eye on that. I wouldn't rod the **** out of it but I would get your 20 minutes in and then take it to the dyno.

JoePSI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GetawayInMoscow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Just read the whole thread. You will be fine with the stock ecu for just driving around, you have a wideband so just keep an eye on that. I wouldn't rod the **** out of it but I would get your 20 minutes in and then take it to the dyno.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Exactly what I was looking for, if anyone else can confirm this that would be great.

GetawayInMoscow

I think the AFRs will be pretty close actually. There is no way they could be off so much that you would blow anything up....

JoePSI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GetawayInMoscow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I think the AFRs will be pretty close actually. There is no way they could be off so much that you would blow anything up....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats what I was thinking, was hoping someone has experience with this compression ratio. the compression should be right above 9.8:1 which isnt far from the stock 10.1:1, but I mean my engine is 11 years old so i doubt it was 10.1:1 before i rebuilt it.

NJslvrtypes

Had Jeff Evans break my K20 in on the dyno.

After I built the motor, fired it up made sure AF was acceptable at idle. Once I checked for leaks, bleed coolant system, and fan kicked on it was shut down.

Trailered it to the dyno w/ 0 miles on the motor. Jeff did his magic and 20 min. later we were doing WOT pulls

Less than 1% leakdown on all 4 cylinders to date

JoePSI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJslvrtypes &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Had Jeff Evans break my K20 in on the dyno.

After I built the motor, fired it up made sure AF was acceptable at idle. Once I checked for leaks, bleed coolant system, and fan kicked on it was shut down.

Trailered it to the dyno w/ 0 miles on the motor. Jeff did his magic and 20 min. later we were doing WOT pulls

Less than 1% leakdown on all 4 cylinders to date</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good info,
Did you change the oil,oil filter and plugs before doing WOT pulls?

NJslvrtypes

Nope, did a quick oil/filter change after the initial startup to get rid of the usual crap from the build.

Plugs were changed though after breakin and then again to two steps colder before race gas.

JoePSI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by NJslvrtypes &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Nope, did a quick oil/filter change after the initial startup to get rid of the usual crap from the build.

Plugs were changed though after breakin and then again to two steps colder before race gas.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

gotcha, I definitely think a hard break in is the way to go to help seat the rings properly.

Ludman95

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by urbansi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I personally dont like the idea of breaking in a motor on a dyno, i would rather put the motor through a few paces before beating the **** out of it, including changing the oil once or twice and making sure everything is leak free and such.

But thats just me...</TD></TR></TABLE>

How mine was done...
watch afr's and take up to 5g
6g
7g
8g
etc...
then you can go from 3 all the way up to whatever you reving to. By the time you get to the wot pulls the rings will have sealed as much as there going to.

alterdcreations

go 300 miles on a street tune(full non vtec and vtec basemaps) and make sure you always compression break...
rev it on the highway like you would normally drive it but add downshifting so you can keep compression breaking.
oil must be changed on initial start up and then oil change after the street tune
then once a week untill 300-500 miles.
then switch to syntec and have fun ....take to dyno



or take it to the dyno and run it that way.
change on start up...after dyno.....then after one hundred miles switch to syntec.....




or as my shortblock builder says.....break her on syntec

HiProfile

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JoePSI &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Agreed but how do you properly break in a completely rebuild and UNTUNED engine?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Here's the deal: under low load, your stock ecu/o2 sensor combo will be correcting the AFR's close to 14.7:1, tuned or not with 240cc injectors. The problem with this method is that you're seating the rings gently, not how you want to.

What I would suggest is putting something like crome or uberdata on the ecu, use ONLY 94-100 octane fuel, then use your wideband to get close to 13.5:1 WOT. Do a few quick pulls from partial throttle and ending with a few WOT pulls to work your way up, just in case AFR's are much different from stock (NA, 240cc's). The use of stock timing maps with high octane gas will mean it should be safe, and going through the map from low load to high load in sequence will mean you'll have very little chance of going overly rich or too lean.


My d16z6 was basicly bone-stock besides a 60mm TB and 9:1 final CR with the forged internals after I installed it. I warmed it up, made sure everything was fine, made some adjustments, then took it out for a few beat runs. Despite having a DX trans on it and being in a coupe, it pulls almost as hard as my 100k mile B18B1 I had in my hatch.

JoePSI

bump for more opinions

BoostedEG6

I break all my motors I have built on the dyno and never had a problem. I start it up with a basemap to check everything like oil pressure, make sure there are no water leaks etc etc... change the oil and filter then trailer to the dyno and hook everything up and bring it up threw the different rpms and down shifting to slow the motor down.. then tune it.

HiProfile

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedEG6 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I break all my motors I have built on the dyno and never had a problem. I start it up with a basemap to check everything like oil pressure, make sure there are no water leaks etc etc... change the oil and filter then trailer to the dyno and hook everything up and bring it up threw the different rpms and down shifting to slow the motor down.. then tune it. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Don't you mean upshifting to slow the motor down? Regardless, the safest way for a motor to decel is with no load. Its going to take very little time anyways, unless you have a 10 liter inline 6 with rods the size of people's arms.

blaze the chemi

I'll tell you what I did...just another post to look at

I rebuilt my motor:
B16 with crower rods, SRP pistons and JE rings.
B16 is 10.2 stock, but I went with 9.9 SRP's.

Since I didn't have a NA exhaust manifold I figured I'd take the car to the dyno after the rebuild. I started the car up after the rebuild to make sure nothing crazy was happening. Everything was fine. I had the car towed to the dyno (only 10 miles ) and had it broken in on the dyno. Ed went easy for the first few runs just to see what the motor was doing (25-50% throttle to 6K)
After he seemed happy, he went to tuning. Ended up at 10psi because of the stock MAP. 17-18K miles afterwards I'm still kicking the **** out of the engine. Pissing off BMW's Mercedes, poor little GT mustangs, and most other cars.

If you tuner is competant then tow your vehicle to the dyno, after you make sure it fires up fine. I let it run for about 30 minutes at idle and checked everything over. I didn't have a WB though.

Good luck

JoePSI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blaze the chemi &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'll tell you what I did...just another post to look at

I rebuilt my motor:
B16 with crower rods, SRP pistons and JE rings.
B16 is 10.2 stock, but I went with 9.9 SRP's.

Since I didn't have a NA exhaust manifold I figured I'd take the car to the dyno after the rebuild. I started the car up after the rebuild to make sure nothing crazy was happening. Everything was fine. I had the car towed to the dyno (only 10 miles ) and had it broken in on the dyno. Ed went easy for the first few runs just to see what the motor was doing (25-50% throttle to 6K)
After he seemed happy, he went to tuning. Ended up at 10psi because of the stock MAP. 17-18K miles afterwards I'm still kicking the **** out of the engine. Pissing off BMW's Mercedes, poor little GT mustangs, and most other cars.

If you tuner is competant then tow your vehicle to the dyno, after you make sure it fires up fine. I let it run for about 30 minutes at idle and checked everything over. I didn't have a WB though.

Good luck </TD></TR></TABLE>

If I tow it it will be a ~300mile (4 hour) tow, and I dont have a truck to use to tow it so i would have to rent a u-haul one way with a trailer. may be worth it though.

Mykizism

yup, had similar results on my motor as well, freshly built, took it to the dyno right away, dyno tuned it.. wot pulls all day long.. with zero miles on the motor...

my leak down tests, actually show better results then when the motor was on my engine stand..

i changed to full synthetic after about 2k miles on my build..

JoePSI

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mykizism &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yup, had similar results on my motor as well, freshly built, took it to the dyno right away, dyno tuned it.. wot pulls all day long.. with zero miles on the motor...

my leak down tests, actually show better results then when the motor was on my engine stand..

i changed to full synthetic after about 2k miles on my build..</TD></TR></TABLE>

You guys have sold me, This is what I plan on doing..
Getting new basemap for new setup.
Start motor with turbo on, make sure everything is running fine.. then shut it down.
Get U-haul truck and trailer for one-way, and trailer the car down to my tuner and get him to break it in and tune it.
I'll change oil and filter after initial startup and after tune.
then... Beat the **** out of it all 4 hours back home.