shotime

The car: 92' hatch cx EG
The build: B20 vtec Turbo

The question to the HT experts;
Im building a b20 vtec turbo with a goal of 400hp. Im using a 89' b16 vtec head thats ported n' polished with a 3 angle valve job. I did my research on what b16 head internals are good to use for b20 vtec turbo projects. I know most ppl use gsr cams and internals(valves,springs,retainers) or type r cams and internals but, I saw nothing saying about how much they can handle successfully. Can either internal setup support 400hp day in and day out for a while (hopefully more then a year i no motors dont last 4ever) without any type of failure??? or is it best to just up grade to all aftermarket internals to get more life out of the head ???
I have the b16 oem valves,springs,retainers but no cams yet and I have a chance to get gsr cams for cheap should i go with that setup if it holds up for my 400hp project ???

I just hear of good and bad stories of oem internals v.s. high hp numbers thats why I question oem internals durability. Any help to clear this up would be great

ahobbs

for the head, don't waste your time with GSR cams get type-r cams or skunk's For 400 hp i would advise built internals.
collect good parts that are efficient together
after that good engine management and a good tune.

blinx9900

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HybridcivicLS-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">for the head, don't waste your time with GSR cams get type-r cams or skunk's For 400 hp i would advise built internals.
collect good parts that are efficient together
after that good engine management and a good tune.</TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed, forged piston rods at least if longevity is a concern. also YES type R and GSR cams can handle well over 400whp but as Hybrid said go with type r or s2s1(tuner) with matching valvtrain.

be sure to have a proper fuel system a capable EMS and a good tuner.

ahobbs

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

agreed, forged piston rods at least if longevity is a concern. also YES type R and GSR cams can handle well over 400whp but as Hybrid said go with type r or s2s1(tuner) with matching valvtrain.

be sure to have a proper fuel system a capable EMS and a good tuner. </TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks for repeating me...

shotime

Thanks for the info, But I read a thread on here saying that the skunk2 stage one cams were not worth getting because they were a mild cam then most ppl think until you get to their stage 2 or really their pro series cams is that true ????

For some reason I didn't really find any threads on here of ppl using type r cams to get high numbers(400hp n' up). For some reason i didn't think type r cams could get me to my 400hp goal. I guess I look down on oem parts to much when I think high numbers mixed with reliability. I guess I shouldn't since it would be alot cheaper.

I only press this issue because this is my first build that im doing myself and I sooo dont want to NOT reach my 400hp goal (and not having it run good for a while) because of reasons of using the wrong cams and valvetrain combo.

th3pwn3r

There was recently a JDM Integra in Super Street running a B18B that was making 430ish hp using Type R cams and when they swapped to Blox cams they went up to 525. I'll probably run Blox cams myself after seeing that huge increase and that's around the power I'm looking to put down but tuned a little more mild, about 450 WHP.

coldstoneicecream

im sure gsr cams would be fine under 400hp

ahobbs

turst me R cams will get you where you want to be, that's from experience. I would rather run R cams than skunk's myself. you can do what you want though.

there are tons of threads about R cams. I know i've responded to at least 3 in the last few days

VtecCarHauler

i have heard that even type r cams are not safe on stock valve springs and retainers when on F.I. setups. I have seen or heard of 2 different cars that dropped stock valves when on boost both were in the 400 range. Just spend the money and get valve springs and retainers so that you greatly lower the risk of losing a head and engine along with the turbo possibly. Stock GSR cams are fine for 400 and even more. The Skunk tuners should be picked over buying type r cams if that is the case. Also make sure that b20 has some aftermarket rods I have seen 3 engines fly the rods. I think the rod bolts are the weak link in the B20 bottom end.

blinx9900

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HybridcivicLS-T &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thanks for repeating me... </TD></TR></TABLE>

shut up foo! i said "agreed" i was re-confirming, you know some of these fools be skeptical

ahobbs

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

shut up foo! i said "agreed" i was re-confirming, you know some of these fools be skeptical

</TD></TR></TABLE>

hehe i know im teasing just being a

flaco0018

gsr are good for 400+ whp i made 470whp on gsr


Modified by flaco0018 at 6:16 PM 8/5/2008

ahobbs

never said they wouldn't. i use them, but r's are always better

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VtecCarHauler &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i have heard that even type r cams are not safe on stock valve springs and retainers when on F.I. setups. I have seen or heard of 2 different cars that dropped stock valves when on boost both were in the 400 range.</TD></TR></TABLE>

This is a problem when you "hear" about these things, and not have unequivocal evidence. If using the Type R cams, uprated valvetrain is a good idea, but there is no correlation between Type R cams, valvetrain and boost.

ahobbs

i love it!!!!

blinx9900

why do people refuse to upgrade there springs and retainers? its a god damn package deal! you buy aftermarket cams you better buy springs and retainers, you wouldn't take a shower and put on dirty underwear would you?

lol at that pic

SD_Lurker

iTrader: (4)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by blinx9900 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why do people refuse to upgrade there springs and retainers? its a god damn package deal! you buy aftermarket cams you better buy springs and retainers, you wouldn't take a shower and put on dirty underwear would you?

lol at that pic </TD></TR></TABLE>

I've done that once but it made me still feel dirty!! I kid I kid.

People do things like that because they are misinformed. When one of their friends tells them " You don't need valve springs and retainers when running skunk2 pro 1's" and then come on HT stating that their master mechanic friend said I didn't have to use them. Its also because its cheaper for people to not run them NOW but don't take into account that when they float a valve its going to cost 10 times the original amount spent. But I saved 300 dollars to spend elsewhere.

emir

Type R is more than enough and durabale to get 400hp out of b20vtec...
upgrade to a better valvetrain would be better

i myself are running b20vtec with 89 B16a head-ITR cam n crower valvetrain with standard b20 bottom ..it put down 325whp running 1.2bar...

boostfeen

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shotime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
For some reason I didn't really find any threads on here of ppl using type r cams to get high numbers(400hp n' up). I look down on oem parts to much when I think high numbers mixed with reliability. </TD></TR></TABLE>

...No problem with me making 600hp fairly low boost on my turbo b20 vtec with CTR cams

VtecCarHauler

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by TheShodan &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

This is a problem when you "hear" about these things, and not have unequivocal evidence. If using the Type R cams, uprated valvetrain is a good idea, but there is no correlation between Type R cams, valvetrain and boost.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You could be right about there being no correlation. The fact is any forced induction on any engine that was never intended to be running positive p.s.i. is going to push the limits of the valvetrain assy. A couple of the biggest tuners will agree with me on the stock valvetrain and F.I. issue. I would even run upgraded valvetrain on a b16 or b18c oem cams. It would really suck to hurt other parts of the engine like: head, pistons, sleeves, rods, block, crank, turbo, etc. just because of skipping upgrading the valvetrain. Even on a all OEM F.I. build I would want to upgrade the valvetrain. I will take alot of other engine damages over a dropped valve any day.

ahobbs

i don't agree completely. use the stock valve train in limitations. dont rev higher than what its intended for. now if you cant drive and mis-shifting, a stock or aftermarket valve train wont help that.

in all my years ive never used an aftermarket valve train and not once have i ran into a problem with boost, and thats with me mis-shifting several times back in the day. (i was lucky on that)

shotime

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostfeen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

...No problem with me making 600hp fairly low boost on my turbo b20 vtec with CTR cams

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I would love to know what type of valvetrain is working with those CTR cams ???

boostfeen

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by shotime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I would love to know what type of valvetrain is working with those CTR cams ???</TD></TR></TABLE>

..Supertech

shotime

Ok as far as throttle bodies go for my boosted 92' eg b20 vtec project. Do I need both map sensor and throttle position sensor ?? or is the throttle position sensor the only one that i need ??

dart2.2

both. research what a map sensor does.