hjdanzi

First of all thanks a millon for your help.

I understand everything you aré saying.

I did read the plugs, but maybe i failed in the Job. They look normal, rich of course, showing clear signs of misfire. I know the heat Range is right because of the length of the colour both in the porcelein and in the threads. Maybe i failed. I should try to read them again with new plugs.

Now, if i buy resistor plugs, do i need non resistor wires? I ask cause with non resistor plugs you use resistor wires.

Well man. All your help is deeply appreciate it, and please dont get me wrong with my answers, im just thinking out loud.

DDTECH

Thinking out loud is always a good thing, dont think twice about calling and asking for some help man, my name is Derek and my number is 225-384-1441, thats my direct line.

You dont need non resistor wires, you'll be fine, you want low resistor wires.
Your heat range can be dictated upon the thread coloring, 3-4 threads need to be discolored to be the right heat range. I would run 8's in that car though, anything above 12 psi i'd go with 8's, just a safety factor as well, you dont know how the customer is going to drive at the end of a hot day anyway...

Get a new set of 8's, gap them to .025, if it pings, go down to .020.. lets get the gap right and heat range right as it sits now before you go back and make any modifications to the map.

2k.civic.si

not enough timing in boost can also cause it to miss/stutter...ive seen this more then a few times on the dyno.

ralph11sec

start with no boost first. just to check if your dizzy is going bad (or about to).


do not have too conservative ign. maybe maximum is 1deg/lb. and it should be too linear.

swap ecu, injector, map, dizzy, plugs.

datalog everything. including fuel pressure(if you have defi or something).

boosted k20

What timing are you running at those boost levels?

DDTECH

ya.. I've had that happen as well, but if he's retarding the tables like he should, neptune should have already compensated per lbs of boost.. i would assume he's using .75 retard per lbs of boost or 1 degree..

hjdanzi

Man... I would LOVE to talk to you over the phone... i mean.. i would LOVE to... the thing is that i live in Buenos Aires, Argentina and its a bit difficult.. and probably the call will cost more than the fix lol.

Well.. Ill see if Xenocron is willing to change that in my order... Thanks a bunch for all your help. Btw... do you have somewhere that article that Chris Delgado aka Massburger did on how to properly read sparkplugs... ive lost it.. and it was really good.

Yeah, you are 100% right about that. But my ignition map is right on spot. Thanks a lot man. Besides, the car misfires before i get to that boost level.... i mean.. sometimes it fails at 1.7 psi.. its like more an rpm problem than a boost problem.

Thanks for your help. I started with a 10psi spring... and the same **** happens... its always at the same rpm and always at the same gear... it doesnt do it in 1st and 2nd. Im preety sure its load/rpm related.

The dizzy, ive already ordered a new one from xenocron.. the same with plugs and wires... Inyectors, they all measure 14ohms so they are good. They are brand new also. I will datalog everything i can.

I cant recall right now.. but Neptune auto-retards timing by whatever value you wanto per lb of boost. (if you wanto obviously) I set mine to 1° retard per psi. Note that it isnt a real retard... just 1 minus point of ignition timing.... Well.. better said... its 1btdc less... not 1 atdc

Exactly. 1° per lbs of boost.

Thanks guys.

SovXietday

I think we're getting a little ahead of ourselves here and chasing problems that he doesn't have.

Symptoms are very simple. Doesn't matter what the boost is, low boost, high boost. Car makes to ~5K at WOT and then breaks up to the point where it won't go to redline. This says to me that the issue is not boost related, but RPM related.

Distributor has been changed. Spark plug wires, spark plugs, etc. All of that has been swapped. No change.

Due to it being a consistent problem no matter what the boost, I'd rule out a lot of the spark plug gapping and fuel pressure stuff. That is things that he would be running into as the power went up, and the car needed stronger spark and more fuel. Timing can also probably be ruled out if the car is doing this at low boost. Like he said, this isn't his first time.

The TPS idea is good. I didn't think of that, if it's backwards it will definitely cause an issue.

I think I'm still leaning on ECU having a good chance of being the problem.

hjdanzi

Thanks again man... You know.. sometimes i feel so lonely... You see.. im the only honda tuner in my whole country!!! Its me, or nothing...

So i have a lot of pressure over my shoulders.

I will try with a new ecu, definitly. But i want to try all the stuff as soon as xenocron ships out the rest of it.. since im tired of running this car... the electrical windows arent working.. it has no a/c... so its a hot bath, you know.... i just want to finish it...

I feel so frustrated... this is actually the first time i have problems i cant solve... And ive tune like 70 hondas... which in my country... is more than what Jeff evans would tune lol.... its like im the only one.

hjdanzi

Btw... im talking right now with Chris Harris.. and he is telling me that NGK doesnt make resistor plugs with heat range 8... if i want resistor plugs i should go with iridium.. range 8... thats what he told me... im confused now.

hjdanzi

Btw... let me know if somebody want/needs some pics to see the car you are helping lol

SovXietday

Nope, he's right. NGK doesn't make resistor plugs at the 8 heat range. At least, none that I have ever found.

They do make non-resistor plugs at 8-9 ranges though. I just can't remember the model number.

Best of luck man! Certainly a good idea to try everything that everyone here has thought of, but one thing at a time! Not being in the US is really a hinderance though, your availability to product is limited. I'm keeping myself posted on this thread to see how everything turns out for you!

hjdanzi

Yes please! keep suscribed, and thanks a lot for your help man!!! I wont forget it. Its funny... cause it says here "TRIAL USER" and its like i dont know anything about forums and stuff, but haha im the administrator of ************.com and a moderator for all honda forums in argentina lol...

I was afraid no one would look into my thread, because of my post count lol. Luckily, i was wrong!....

Btw... i have a test sparkplug here... and its like difficult to go lower than .020 gap... i mean... if i gap it somemore it would be touching the center electrode with the tip... how do you close the gap up there? any special tool or something? my spark plugs gapper, which i bought from US cause it doesnt even exist here its the coin gapper... it works well to open, but i cant close the gap with that precision.. like to get .018... the most perfect i can make is .020.

hjdanzi

Wow... censored.. right there... mmm

DDTECH

Ask chris what he recommends..

On a Honda engine, if the stock spark plugs have been replaced, it is very important to ensure that the replacement spark plugs have an integral resistor. Non-resistor spark plugs cause a large amount of electrical interference which may effect vehicle electronics, including the ECU.

Resistor spark plugs use an integral resistor to absorb the radio frequency energy generated from the spark. In earlier Honda engines the resistor was often incorporated into the distributor cap or spark plug wires. With the K-Series engine the only place for the resistor is in the spark plug. Almost all spark plugs are of the resistor type (actually we were surprised that people could still buy non resistor type plugs).

copyed from hondata's site.

hjdanzi

Chris recommended me using iridium 7 or 8 depending on the whp im gonna get... Since this build has a log style manifold + a little downpipe/exhaust and all... i guess i wont get more than 300whp AT THE MOST... thats why i was using heat range 7... btw.. he said that iridium plugs, have a built-in resistor different from the other resistor plugs like the regular ngk resistor.

a1320honda

Something to try....

I had an alike issue on my built B series. Basicly right around when it would go into VTEC it would almost be like hitting a rev limiter. I tried everthing thinking it was a timing related issue. Went through all the same things you did and what my problem turned out to be was...Jumped in Crome and turned VTEC off and ill be dammed, thing revved all the way out. turns out there wasnt enough oil pressure to physicly change vtec over. The map, fuel, everything timing related was changing over but it was going to the big lobe. Went to a bigger oil line and it fixed the problem (thanks Reid@KAIZEN). I know a z6 doesnt have an external oil line but it could be an indication the oil pump is putting out enough oil pressure to the head.

Maybe you answered this in another post, but does it do it if your at like 30% throttle going up, or is it only under boost.

hjdanzi

Thanks a lot for your help!!! Lookm what you are saying is great, and might cause the issue sometimes... but to be honest with you... this is how i tune vtec...

First i put the vtec off like very high and tune all the map as if the car didnt have vtec. I tune it till red line

Then i set vtec to 3,300rpms and tune all the map as if it is on vtec all the time.

Finally i see were lines cross in the dyno, and set the vtec engagement point at that spot.

Why did i tell you this? cause i never finished tuning the low cam.. cause it top out at 4,200rpms... so.... i never tried it on vtec...

ITS ALWAYS OFF, all sensors off... and the problem remains the same.

So im sure its not a vtec issue, cause my vtec engagment point is now set to 8k... and the problem still remains.

Thanks for your help though.

Ohhh... regarding your question... If i recall right there was a time that it did it as soon as i touched 4k.. didnt matter the tps position.. but know... it only does it at wot (at least in 3rd gear... My guess is that in 4th gear it will do it no matter if im at wot or not...)

Bizzle5OH3

I had the same problem 2 weeks ago. Bought some NGKBK7R plugs ( forgot the new part number for them ) anyway the guy gapped them to .42 or something. I didnt bother to check and swapped them out, car started cutting out BAD, felt just like boost cut out. Pushed the plugs back down to .20 gap and it runs perfect again

boosted k20

Do you have a pic of the car. Not too sure if anyone mentioned it, but how is your dumptube routed? is it near the turbo inlet? Maybe your wastegate is dumping right at the turbo inlet causing the motor to choke up from getting no fresh oxygen. Take a pic of the engine bay if you can.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

You dont want to rev the head past a certain point with vtec not turning on. Im not sure what that rpm is in a D series but in a b series you dont want to go past 6500 rpm as the vtec cam rocker can float on the LMA's and cause valvetrain damage. Again not sure what the limit would be on a D series

hjdanzi

Thanks man, yes... there are a lot of members stating that i should go lower in the gap... Ill definitly try that, along with all the other suggestions.

When i got the car it was a disaster... the dumptube joined the turbo outlet lol... the exhaust gases entered into the turbo!!! that was the first thing i fixed it.. now its an open dumptube. Anyway, here's the pic and thanks for the help:

The one in the left is HOW IVE RECEIVED THE CAR.. THE ONE IN THE RIGHT IS AFTER MY MODIFICATION




Yeah, thats true. To be honest with you.. Half of the tuners say that and the other half say that nothing will happen... Nevertheless i wont do it... but the car wont pass 4k so i was "safe" lol.

hjdanzi

Update: Xenocron shipped out my stuff today. Hopefully it will get here in 10 working days. Ill keep you guys updated, i promise.

SovXietday

Ugh, I'd hate waiting those times lol. I think Xenocron is like an hour and a half away from me total lol.

hjdanzi

Yes, I would definitly KILL to be able to work and get supplies that easy.

Sometimes i laugh when you guys say something is expensive... like...

mmm.. no the aem series 2 is 1300 dollars.. ITS A LOT OF MONEY! lol for us its almost 7000 pesos with shipping and taxes (we earn our salary in pesos) ,its like you pay 7000 dollars for the aem lol.

Then... a new dizzy for you guys its like 300 dollars OEM from dealership.. for us its 3500 pesos...

I own a boosted prelude.. in US the stock prelude (4th gen) is like 700 dollars lol... here in argentina its 42,000 pesos (11,000 dolars)...

Lol lol.. its sad.. but oh well...