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MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

 
Old 11-25-2018, 08:09 PM
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Default MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Got my car all put together and I will be taking it to get it tuned soon. Before I do I'm wondering if there's anywhere I could/should make improvements?

1990 CRX
b16a2 stock sleeves
JE 8:1 81.5 pistons
Eagle H beam rods
Turbonetics 5857
Auto Works street kit, 2.5" open dp, cast manifold, 2.5" fmic piping
1000cc precision injectors
Hondata s300 v1
Stock b16 intake and tb
AEM fuel rail
AEM AFPR
Walbro 255
Competition stg 5 clutch
Tial Sport 38mm wg
Y1 LSD trans
Stock head

Hoping to make around 400whp. Car is already assembled and running, mainly wondering if I would get big gains from an intake or tb and if my power goals are reasonable. Thanks!
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Old 11-25-2018, 08:55 PM
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Default re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

400 wheel HP will definitely strain a stock block. I am not sure why you went so low on compression, but this means that quite a bit more boost will be required to meet your power goal compared to a 9.5 or 10:1 engine. 400 wheel HP is right at the threshold where a larger intake manifold will be helpful. At this power level, the gains will likely be 20 HP or less, but that is something. The larger T/B will not be of any real benefit... certainly not any bigger than 65mm.
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Old 11-26-2018, 02:57 AM
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Default re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Also...are you planning on running pump gas, E85, or something else?
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Old 11-26-2018, 04:51 AM
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Default re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Was planning on running pump gas. Was told my 1000cc injectors may not cut it for e85 and I've heard of problems with it clogging fuel filters and other stuff so I'd rather not mess with it
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Old 11-26-2018, 05:41 AM
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Default Re: Is this build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by MastaFlyMason View Post
Was planning on running pump gas. Was told my 1000cc injectors may not cut it for e85 and I've heard of problems with it clogging fuel filters and other stuff so I'd rather not mess with it
Those Precision Rocgester/Lucas style injectors run like ***. They are not the same at all as an EV14 high impedence injector. You don't have to run anything nearly as large just running on 93 octane to make that power level and your idle /running quality will thank toy for switching those out to even 650-850cc if toy stay low impedence
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Old 11-26-2018, 06:04 AM
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Default Re: Is this build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
Those Precision Rocgester/Lucas style injectors run like ***. They are not the same at all as an EV14 high impedence injector. You don't have to run anything nearly as large just running on 93 octane to make that power level and your idle /running quality will thank toy for switching those out to even 650-850cc if toy stay low impedence
Is it just the idle quality that suffers with them? I used them on my previous build (stock block b20 turbo) and it idled smooth enough
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Old 11-26-2018, 06:51 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Opening up your exhaust will help a lot more than a new intake or throttle body will.

3inch downpipe to 3 inch exhaust and thank me later...
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Old 11-26-2018, 07:55 AM
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Default Re: Is this build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
Those Precision Rocgester/Lucas style injectors run like ***. They are not the same at all as an EV14 high impedence injector. You don't have to run anything nearly as large just running on 93 octane to make that power level and your idle /running quality will thank toy for switching those out to even 650-850cc if toy stay low impedence
Yeah, I ran low impedance RC 550's on my last build and it wouldn't idle at all until it warmed up...and those were only 550's. Could have been the tune though, who knows. I got ID 1000's for my current build with the hopes of a good idle, no resistor box, and room to grow and/or change to E85 at some point.
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:09 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by solo227 View Post
Opening up your exhaust will help a lot more than a new intake or throttle body will.

3inch downpipe to 3 inch exhaust and thank me later...
Does anyone sell a prefab hood exit?
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:25 AM
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Default Re: Is this build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by DaX View Post
Yeah, I ran low impedance RC 550's on my last build and it wouldn't idle at all until it warmed up...and those were only 550's. Could have been the tune though, who knows. I got ID 1000's for my current build with the hopes of a good idle, no resistor box, and room to grow and/or change to E85 at some point.
That's the tune, and the initial idle fuel trims. If it were an impedence issue, those RC550s wouldn't have fired at all. So, if you had a resistor pack, you'd have been fine, and only the tuner could have adjusted the dead times and fuel trims. Just switching to ID1000s can help, but if the tuner can't dial those in, it's time to go elsewhere.
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:28 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by MastaFlyMason View Post
Does anyone sell a prefab hood exit?
Nope. Gotta make the hole yourself. But I don't recommend a Hood exit in the slightest for any street car. You're asking for a lot of trouble.
- Windscreen discoloration / possible failure
-Objects inadvertantly / purposefully enter the hole rendering the turbocharger useless
-Fumes entering the cabin
-Too many variables of where the exit of the outlet would be to have anything pre-drilled , let alone sold.

If you want to be functional, yet "different", then get a real exhaust system, or have a side exit under the chassis behind the seats
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Old 11-26-2018, 08:55 AM
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Default Re: Is this build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
That's the tune, and the initial idle fuel trims. If it were an impedence issue, those RC550s wouldn't have fired at all. So, if you had a resistor pack, you'd have been fine, and only the tuner could have adjusted the dead times and fuel trims. Just switching to ID1000s can help, but if the tuner can't dial those in, it's time to go elsewhere.
Yeah, I had a resistor pack. I think the guy that tuned it back then was just starting out...I'm planning to have a reputable shop tune this new one.
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:12 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Ok so I'm just gonna grab a 3" downpipe and run open dp, leaving everything else. How likely am I to be in the 400whp hp range?
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:26 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by MastaFlyMason View Post
Does anyone sell a prefab hood exit?
Do you mean a hood or basically the metal cut out shape? If you mean can you buy a metal cut out then yes there are places that sell up pipe cutouts but you would have to cut out the hood. It's actually pretty easy, if you have an up pipe made for your car it's pretty easy to see where to cut the hood and then place the cut out over the hole.
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:34 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by MastaFlyMason View Post
Does anyone sell a prefab hood exit?
Everybody does...

Google it... Plenty of reputable companies out there making them.
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:42 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

I don't think you'll hit 400 on premium pump gas with that low of compression. Just my humble opinion, but it's going to work the turbo a lot harder and blow hot air, meaning you might need to run less timing to avoid detonation.

You could do it on e85 with some better injectors, a stainless filter and upgraded fuel lines with that setup more easily imo.
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Old 11-26-2018, 09:51 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by 2x0 View Post
I don't think you'll hit 400 on premium pump gas with that low of compression. Just my humble opinion, but it's going to work the turbo a lot harder and blow hot air, meaning you might need to run less timing to avoid detonation.

You could do it on e85 with some better injectors, a stainless filter and upgraded fuel lines with that setup more easily imo.
What size injectors would I need for e85? And I've heard that stock fuel lines will work for e85 is that not true? What are the downsides to e85?
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:00 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by MastaFlyMason View Post
Ok so I'm just gonna grab a 3" downpipe and run open dp, leaving everything else. How likely am I to be in the 400whp hp range?
At the very least, run the exhaust tip curved and point it towards the ground where it dumps (so it's pointing to the ground/road and not straight back). Why are you dead-set on not running a full exhaust?

Originally Posted by MastaFlyMason View Post
What size injectors would I need for e85? And I've heard that stock fuel lines will work for e85 is that not true? What are the downsides to e85?
Stock lines are safe. Max E85 power on stock lines is around 450-470WHP.

As already stated, and I hope you already know, you've kneecaped yourself very badly with such low compression and a 1.6L engine as far as turbo response/spool is concerned. Reaching your goal will be significantly harder because of this as well.
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:39 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by Chance EG View Post
At the very least, run the exhaust tip curved and point it towards the ground where it dumps (so it's pointing to the ground/road and not straight back). Why are you dead-set on not running a full exhaust?



Stock lines are safe. Max E85 power on stock lines is around 450-470WHP.

As already stated, and I hope you already know, you've kneecaped yourself very badly with such low compression and a 1.6L engine as far as turbo response/spool is concerned. Reaching your goal will be significantly harder because of this as well.
It's not a car I drive much so I'm not sure how much I really care, was running open DP before and it never bothered me. My original setup was a stock block b20 turbo with 220whp. Only reason I'm upgrading is because I parted out a turbo del sol and pulled this engine out of it. Got it for free basically so I figured it would at least be an upgrade from what I was running. I'm gonna look into the whole e85 thing, it is something I am now considering.
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:40 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

People are doing crazy things with Vitara builds on inefficient single cam motors. Shouldn't be a problem hitting 400 even with that low of compression.

Look into some Type R cams which should help the motor breathe better. And turn up the boost.
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Old 11-26-2018, 10:53 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Man now I know why people get so damn confused LOL.
  • Stock lines are fine with E85 I've made 650whp on E85 stock fuel lines and ID1000's BUT maxed out. E85 is however a fuel you don't want sitting around in a tank for months on end. If you daily drive it will be just fine, if you plan on having it down months at a time drain the E85, add 91 and flush the lines.
  • 1000cc Injectors are plenty for 400whp
  • Yes, if you are going to run a down pipe then don't do a vertical cut but an angled cut so the exhaust goes downward towards the ground
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Old 11-26-2018, 01:33 PM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Originally Posted by AZ_CIVIC View Post
Man now I know why people get so damn confused LOL.
  • Stock lines are fine with E85 I've made 650whp on E85 stock fuel lines and ID1000's BUT maxed out. E85 is however a fuel you don't want sitting around in a tank for months on end. If you daily drive it will be just fine, if you plan on having it down months at a time drain the E85, add 91 and flush the lines.
  • 1000cc Injectors are plenty for 400whp
  • Yes, if you are going to run a down pipe then don't do a vertical cut but an angled cut so the exhaust goes downward towards the ground
a) yes, you could, but it doesn't mean you should. But the lines are stressed, especially when over 20 years old.

b) yes, plenty for 400whp, but isn't necessary UNLESS going E85

c) Agreed
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Old 11-27-2018, 12:11 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Got my car all put together and I will be taking it to get it tuned soon. Before I do I'm wondering if there's anywhere I could/should make improvements?

1990 CRX
b16a2 stock sleeves
JE 8:1 81.5 pistons
Eagle H beam rods
Turbonetics 5857
Auto Works street kit, 2.5" open dp, cast manifold, 2.5" fmic piping
1000cc precision injectors
Hondata s300 v1
Stock b16 intake and tb
AEM fuel rail
AEM AFPR
Walbro 255
Competition stg 5 clutch
Tial Sport 38mm wg
Y1 LSD trans
Stock head

Hoping to make around 400whp. Car is already assembled and running, mainly wondering if I would get big gains from an intake or tb and if my power goals are reasonable. Thanks!
Id get at least GSR cams.
Competition stage 4 or FX400 not stage 5
Id easily ditch the hondata and go for a crome gold for 400whp
to save up for supertech 85lbs springs and steel/titanium retainers.SPRK-H100DR / RET-K20A2/T2

Other than that the kit looks good.If you dont go for E85 id choose a stage 5 turbine wheel turbo for 400whp with a cast manifold
just to lower the reversion/backpressue. Still in a .63 housing. I just i dont like the cast mani + pump gas + stg3 turbine wheel combo for 400whp from a B16.
But it can be done probably.

Edit: I bet my money on you hating that hood exit if you use it on the street. AND the ladies that get into the car

Last edited by Balor_Gr; 11-27-2018 at 12:56 AM.
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:18 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

Is there any downside of having the rad fan always running? With my last setup it was hard to get it running cool. The intercooler takes up the whole bottom portion of the bumper where the rad should be getting air flow so I have tons of holes drilled into the bumper and a little hood gap to let air in. My stock temp gauge was waaay off and Hondata would throw me into limp mode and my gauge would still be not even half way. I ended up putting in an aftermarket gauge and put it at the stock sensor location not realizing it was for the rad fan sensor. Should I put it back and put the new sensor somewhere else or can I run it like this? The extra noise doesn't bother me and it is being under operating temp isn't an issue
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Old 11-27-2018, 05:21 AM
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Default Re: MastaFlyMason wants to know : Is THIS an example of a build good for 400whp?

As others have said, your fuel delivery system will be pushed to its limits, but I would be concerned a little about the head gasket with no upper cylinder support in the block. Just make sure it’s tuned very well. Anything over 300hp in a CRX is going to feel like monster anyway
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