Hybrid96EK

I can't see how this makes any sense. I made a cold air like setup to locate the filter in the fenderwell like an AEM. Car ran 14.0 @ 100mph before this setup. Took it to the track to test it and got several 14.0 @ 102mph passes. Intake temps log 20 degrees cooler then before (and no, its not 20 degrees cooler tonight then when I made previous runs) but I am getting some pretty bad detonation with this setup also. Pulled 1.5 degrees off the map (if I remember right) up top and its a lot better, but still a hint here and there. Running ~10.5:1 up top which should be more then enough to avoid detonation. Why would a cold air setup cause detonation especially when the freakin a/f ratio is retarded rich?

Fuel setup is stock pump
RC 550's
Crome Pro


Modified by Hybrid93Eg at 7:08 PM 11/23/2006


Modified by Hybrid93Eg at 7:08 PM 11/23/2006

N20civicB18

stock pump is maxed out and about to **** the bed

SovXietday

Walbro it and see if it's fixing your problems.

Oh, and being extremely rich doesn't keep detonation away, it just acts as more retard due to the fuel taking longer to burn.

HiProfile

I'd assume you retuned the AFR's, or at viewed them assuming you've *really* dialed in your IAT corrections?

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by N20civicB18 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock pump is maxed out and about to **** the bed </TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd have NO problems believing this, but if thats the case, why aren't the A/F ratios showing it? I mean, I am running pretty damn rich (10.5:1) up top. Wouldn't the A/F ratios be dropping off if this was the case?

Timing maps are stock D16Z6 maps setup for .75 degrees retard per lb of boost. Plugs gapped to .32. 8psi.

CivicVX94

where are you taking the iat's at? the tb or at the actual intake, pre turbo?
i don't see it being possible that post-turbo you netted a 20 degree dif. w/ the same setup....if so i give you ******* props, but i doubt it

OBRJosh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hybrid93Eg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I'd have NO problems believing this, but if thats the case, why aren't the A/F ratios showing it? I mean, I am running pretty damn rich (10.5:1) up top. Wouldn't the A/F ratios be dropping off if this was the case?

Timing maps are stock D16Z6 maps setup for .75 degrees retard per lb of boost. Plugs gapped to .32. 8psi.</TD></TR></TABLE>Yea i agree, If your Uego is right and your not leaning out then its a timing issue!, I personaly dont have much experince with D-series but form what ive read they dont like Much timing, But either way still spend the $100 on a walbro

GTibunny16v

Too rich can cause denotation also. It can leave unburnt fuel in the ringland area and that can burn after the fact.

Also, Id pull 1 degree of timing out past 4psi and see how it would react. Also, maybe gap the plugs a little tighter, like .025".

OBRJosh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GTibunny16v &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Also, Id pull 1 degree of timing out past 4psi and see how it would react. Also, maybe gap the plugs a little tighter, like .025".</TD></TR></TABLE> Yea I agree on that, I dunno if 10.5.1 Is All that rich too casue a problem, But anytihng thing is posssible, Make the gaps Tigher, Take some more timing out, run it 11.2.- 11.5AF, Also prolly could of Got some Shitty Gas too, If anythng Colder ,Denser Air you make you Run Leaner...

platinum00

Take the cold air setup off and see if it fixes your issue. It might be a coincidence and the problem is elseware.

I've never had much luck with a plug gap of .032, I would take it down to around .028

platinum.

lugnuts

if you were on the verge of knock before, and the new air intake helps the engine make more hp(which by the temp is very possible) then its easy to assume it would push it into knock.
this assumes the fuel is the same.
also look into your timing vs. air temp settings if you have them. might be adding timing when colder.
either way the best way to get rid of knock is to reduce timing, not drown it in fuel

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CivicVX94 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where are you taking the iat's at? the tb or at the actual intake, pre turbo?
i don't see it being possible that post-turbo you netted a 20 degree dif. w/ the same setup....if so i give you ******* props, but i doubt it</TD></TR></TABLE>

Intake temps are being taken in the actual manifold, POST turbo. Keep in mind the old intake setup was getting air directly behind the radiator. With this in mind, I think its easy to see a 20 degree drop by moving the filter to the fenderwell.

It was "on the edge" of detonation before. I'm not going to lie and say I never heard it detonate. I figured running "stock" maps at .75 degrees per lb of boost I would be more then safe. I wound up removing half a degree from 5-7psi and 3/4 of a degree from 8+. Seems to have things under control. It seems like anytime I go anything above 8psi for prolonged periods of time, I start having knock issues. I just don't think its the pump so much possibly too much timing. Car seems to have trapped at the same speeds with the removed timing pulled, although 3/4 of a degree isn't that much.

Bailhatch

what do you run for timing where the Tq peaks?

JDMCRX

iTrader: (2)

Pulling cold air from the inner fender area does work yada yada I do not care what other people have said. Ive done my testing with the S300 and i did see over 20deg drop in temps on both sensors at the filter and the OEM one in the intake runner. The intake temps on the main pipe before the turbo dropped in temps over 30deg. The intake i saw a good 10-20 on a good day. I notice less lag in traffic as its not sucking hot air from the rad.

Can you post up some timing maps ??

GTibunny16v

Good rule to follow when street tuning. Remove 1 degree of timing per PSI. Then when you get on the dyno start to add timing until you either denotate or stop making power. At that time back timing down 2-3 degrees to give you a good safe margin.

Also, you can usually start adding some timing after peak torque occurs. Of course you wont know when that happens unless you're on a dyno.

IMO, you're running too much timing for your octane and like lugnuts said, drowning it in fuel wont solve your problem.

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Pulling cold air from the inner fender area does work yada yada I do not care what other people have said. Ive done my testing with the S300 and i did see over 20deg drop in temps on both sensors at the filter and the OEM one in the intake runner. The intake temps on the main pipe before the turbo dropped in temps over 30deg. The intake i saw a good 10-20 on a good day. I notice less lag in traffic as its not sucking hot air from the rad.

Can you post up some timing maps ??</TD></TR></TABLE>

Showing only the high cam timing here. Column 1 and 2 are the same as 3. I don't boost past 10psi (spikes), settles to 8psi, falling to about 7.5 at redline..

blackeg

i always start my plugs gapped at .028 and go down from there.

pull a degree or so around mbt, which should be like 4500-5500 rpms, and try and get the a/f in the low 11's. a walbro would be good for peace of mind as well

Hondaen

Colder air = you need more fuel to get the proper a/f ratio, you leaned out the mixture by adding more air. (Cold air = more dens as anyone know).

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hondaen &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Colder air = you need more fuel to get the proper a/f ratio, you leaned out the mixture by adding more air. (Cold air = more dens as anyone know).

</TD></TR></TABLE>

I know this much. I'm not asking that. If the mixture leaned out so much, why does the wideband say its rich?

Riake

do you have any datalogs of the runs where detenation occurs? My advice would be settle out the AFR to 11 and pull 1 degree per lb like others have said.

BlackCRX

how do you know its detonating?
what are you using to check this?

if anything i would run 1*/psi timing retard and lean out the fuel to mid 11's

why is everyone saying he should tighten his gap? is he misfiring? .032 @ 8psi should be fine

im running .035gap @ 15psi

0xenocron

I agree 100% on this. Stock D-Series @ 8-10 psi shouldnt need anything closer than .035 gap.

How do you know you are detonating? My guess is you are misfiring from being TOO rich.

Has nothing to do with the fuel pump if you are keeping 10.5:1 AFRs...you are just probably too rich. I would do 1 degree/psi and lean it out to 12.0...maybe even 12.5 if it was my own car.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlackCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how do you know its detonating?
what are you using to check this?

if anything i would run 1*/psi timing retard and lean out the fuel to mid 11's

why is everyone saying he should tighten his gap? is he misfiring? .032 @ 8psi should be fine

im running .035gap @ 15psi

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlackCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how do you know its detonating?
what are you using to check this?

if anything i would run 1*/psi timing retard and lean out the fuel to mid 11's

why is everyone saying he should tighten his gap? is he misfiring? .032 @ 8psi should be fine

im running .035gap @ 15psi

</TD></TR></TABLE>

Because I can CLEARLY hear it. Can of rock, you know... I know what it sounds like, it pissed off... removing timing helps.

OBRJosh

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by xenocron &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Has nothing to do with the fuel pump if you are keeping 10.5:1 AFRs...you are just probably too rich. I would do 1 degree/psi and lean it out to 12.0...maybe even 12.5 if it was my own car.

</TD></TR></TABLE> 12.0 to 12.5 on a stock engine??


Modified by OBRJosh at 5:34 PM 11/27/2006

Hybrid96EK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by OBRJosh &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> 12.0 to 12.5 on a stock engine?? Thats way to lean!!! Do no tune your car to 12.0 12.5.... Keep it 11.5 11.8 MAX.... </TD></TR></TABLE>

I don't know if 12.0 is "way" too lean. I would say 11.8-12.0 is fine. I've personally tuned several cars to that level with excellent results. For some reason though, my car doesn't seem to get the same attention