DA 4 Lyfe

I'm trying to figure out the "rule" to how much boost each WG spring can handle. I keep hearing 2.5 times the amount of the WG springs, 3 times the amount and 4 times the springs. I have 11.6 springs in my Twin Tial 38MM WG's and i'm wondering how much PSI it WILL actually be able to hold/handle. I keep getting told 3 different things and research keeps telling me "2-4" times the amount of the springs. Any input would help. If the answer is "depending on your setup" what would that actually depend on? I can list more details if needed. Looking to make 33-34 pounds of boost. The EMS is Hondata S300 V1 with a P28 ECU on a 84mm GSR

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Run dual Mac solenoids and you can get way over 35psi

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Im at 5x spring. I think the 2x rule is if just using the side port to control boost.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

I think at 65 percent duty cycle with one solenoid I was able to get 27 psi on a 7 psi spring. Could have kept going but ran out of motor

1FASTHF

I'm curious as well... Let's get a good informative thread going here. Post your WG setup/size,spring pressures,type of solenoid,plumbing,pressure accomplished,duty cycle,etc.

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Turbosmart 45mm gate 7 psi spring 65% duty cycle 27 psi boost, 17 psi spring 34 psi boost 45% duty cycle. Hondata S300 Mac solenoid

Both my wastegate and boost controller are plumbed directly to the compressor housing of the turbo. Top mount with a precision 6266

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

We already had a thread like that.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/ebc-boost-levels-vs-wastegate-spring-rate-2404207/

1FASTHF

There's really no detailed information in that thread...

non-VTEC

i dunno about that 2x rule...my 3psi spring hold 17psi pretty well with my mac solenoid and AVCR

DA 4 Lyfe

What allows you to run "5x the spring"?

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

4 port MAC solenoid.

DA 4 Lyfe

Ah hell no. I had the 4 port before and it sucked so bad. I couldn't get it to hold boost to save my life

extremeracer

Not a Mac Solenoid setup, but a Blitz Dual SBC - Turbosmart 60mm 7psi spring, 28 psi at max duty cycle (4 x spring pressure)

On my street car I run 2 x 38mm Wastegates, Mac 3-port solenoid and eCtune, 12 psi springs gave me an easy 25 psi at around 50% dutycycle, so you should be fine with those 11.8 springs if the turbine housing/exhaust system is not restrictive.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

DA 4 Lyfe - How did you have it plumbed? This is how I have mine.

OneBadTurboCRV

Maybe you should learn how to tune or install it correctly before you complain...

HiProfile

Funny my old thread was referenced. After I started selling MAC solnoids I was curious if you could use the 4-port/4-way solenoids to up boost, I just never reordered after that to try one out. They were only a few bucks more than the 3-port model. Maybe I'll order a bunch more and include a 4-port in the order.

Since then I boosted that D16 up to 19psi with that 4psi spring with the two port method 1 connection. I don't think I even maxed on the duty cycle, but then again it had a restrictive exh manifold.

DA 4 Lyfe

Best answer by far. I'm running a Ball bearing PTE 6266 with a 1.00 AR.

As far as tuning goes, I leave that up to my TUNER. It would either be 10 pounds of boost or way more then I was tuned for and would just hit boost cut. The duty cycle on that 4 port was so touchy that I could have it set at 45% and make 10 PSI or whatever and then 50% would hit boost cut. I'm just saying that was the BIGGEST headache I have had. Many many track passes to figure it out along with spending all that money on race gas and the $25 to run every week. 3 port works great for me

HiProfile

One idea I had was to use the standard 2-port method with the solenoid to the top, but have a regulator on the bottom port. The pressure regulator restricts boost after a certain pressure. THe bottom port would see a max pressure a few PSI above spring pressure (say 7psi on a 4psi spring), so boost on the top port would be that much more effective, meaning more boost for a given duty cycle.

It would be a good middle ground between the normal 2-port method and a 4-way solenoid in the picture above. I'm just not sure about boost lingering in the bottom port when out of boost.

crvtectim

I'd appreciate some insight from you guys on plumbing the lines for my new dual gate setup.

The car has:

one 3 port mac solenoid

2 wastegates with 4 psi springs

1 boost ref. source at the turbo

1 boost ref. source on the cold side charge piping near throttle body

What method would you guys use for this setup? I'd like for it to work out so that one gate doesn't have priority over the other. I suppose that means no "T's" allowed and I should figure out where to add an additional boost ref. source?

What say you Lords of BBG?!

Edit: Let's assume I wanna push 3-5x the spring rates also.

DA 4 Lyfe

No one knows. Go figure

OneBadTurboCRV

What did you ask?

"crvtectim" - You can run them serial (plumbed from one to the other like a chain) or parallel (split from one source or with a "T" is you prefer). Some may want to argue that there may be priority, but is only in the most extreme circumstances that there is a problem
There are videos proving its fine either way.

crvtectim

Much appreciated, N3va! I stumbled across a good comparison vid for serial vs. parallel the other day while researching. Let's see if I can find that link in case anyone else is curious. Ah, here we go:


Looks like either way you slice it, the gates respond the same.

So I'll just use the turbo's boost ref. T'd to the gates' lower ports. Then I'll run boost ref. from charge pipe to the Mac valve's port #1. And then route a line out of the #2 port on the Mac valve to be T'd to both gates' upper ports. And leave the #3 port on the Mac valve vented to atmosphere.

Anybody see any problems with that?

chialpha2006

for the sake of adding the information to the thread:

I'm using a Mac 3 port solenoid with twin tial 38mm wastegates with 7.3 lb springs and on 75% duty cycle on the solenoid, we were able to achieve 33 lbs of boost... wastegate boost reference was taken from the port on the side of the turbocharger, which is a Precision 6266. Setup is T'd exactly as you have described it... using a T to connect the bottom ports, and a T at the tops with one line running to port 1 and one line running to port 2 on the MAC solenoid and port 3 vented to atmosphere. If that makes sense...

crvtectim

Awesome! Thanks guys.

DA 4 Lyfe

Do you guys use the "Gear based target boost" or "Gear based duty cycle" on the Hondata s300?