MalcolmV8

I've been researching what to do with my PCV setup now that I have a turbo on the car (not running yet).
I read the crank case ventilation thread in the FAQ and it seems to indicate the most popular choice and easiest method is to run some hose from the black box on the back of the block to a vented catch can and to also run some hose from the valve cover port to the same vented catch can. Essentially just breathers.
This deletes the factory PCV system which normally uses engine vacuum to pull air through the block and remove blow by and other contaminents. I've always read this is import to help prevent engine sludge.

So I'm asking the guys that have deleted the PCV system and just run breathers on the block and valve cover do you get engine sludge? Should I be concerned?

I was going to plumb my catch can to the intake side of the turbo for a somewhat vacuum source to pull the air but the FAQ says my turbo and intercooler + piping will turn into a giant catch can and you need to clean them all frequently. Not a route I want to go.

Thanks
Malcolm

Dc4LsTeG

iTrader: (7)

I'm pretty sure if you just put a filter on the block its gonna shoot oil out

MalcolmV8

Probably, that's not what I'm saying. The FAQ says to install some hose from the block (where the black box is) to a catch can. The catch can has a filter on it.

racebum

the black box is a great oil trap. the only reason guys delete it is if crankcase pressure is high enough the box becomes a limitation. the factory pcv is also a POS that doesn't flow for ****. you will actually have a better crankcase vent running a hose off the black box to a filter or catch can filter. try sucking through a honda pcv sometime and you'll see what i mean. try it back to back with a standard small block pcv and the difference is night and day. the hondas just don't flow

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

How much power you are trying to make will dictate how much crankcase ventilation you will need to have. Also if the engine is stock or semi or full built and what kind of PTW and ring gap clearences are being utilized will play a big role.

generally for a very healthy stock engine 250-300hp a hose off the black box and hose off the valve cover to a catch can will suffice. More than that you will have to start looking into other options. you can drill and tap the valve cover or you can have fittinsg welded to the valve cover. there is also the ports on the back of the block to utilize but i dont prefer those as they always push oil out on acceleration even with anti syphon fittings but for guys making big big power they will have up to 6 -10hoses on their engine four to the head and two to the block

MalcolmV8

It looks to me like the PCV valve slides into the black box and the hose attaches to it. How do I eliminate the PCV and still connect the hose? How about just drilling out the center of the PCV so it's free flowing?

Right now motor is stock. It's a D16Y8. My understanding is I shouldn't go over 10 PSI on the stock motor. Once I've tuned the car, worked out all the bugs and had a ton of fun in it and ready to step up the game I'll pull the motor and put rods, pistons etc. in it and turn up the boost. At that time I'll upgrade what ever hoses I need or add hoses etc.

So back to my original question? Doing this doesn't cause sludge in the motor or crank case? I shouldn't be concerned about lack of vacuum drawing air out of the crank case?

Whiterice-gsr

i have my valve cover vented to atmosphere i also pulled the pcv and just let it vent to atmosphere but what i am going to do when i get around to it is install a catch can and weld 2 bungs in my valve cover and the old pcv line and run all 3 to the can. just for venting right now go to the parts store and buy a pcv for a turbo toyota and stick it in it will relieve the pressure just fine. and no i havent experience any sludge at all.

MalcolmV8

Anything more specific on the PCV like model and year? My local parts counter guys are pretty challenged as it is, even with make model and year they have a heck of a time finding stuff.

racebum

you would use the black plastic adapter from an itr that has a hose run to the pcv. it's a plastic double male fitting that has one end in the pcv and you can attach 5/16", if i remember right, hose to the other and plumb to the catch

pull up acuraoemparts.com and look at the integra R pcv system. you'll see the adapter i'm talking about come right out of the black box.

probably around $5 at your local acura dealer

Whiterice-gsr

[QUOTE=MalcolmV8;46843253]Anything more specific on the PCV like model and year? My local parts counter guys are pretty challenged as it is, even with make model and year they have a heck of a time finding stuff.

lmao, i believe mine is from a late 90s mr2 turbo. what racebum said will also work too. but if u dont have a can yet i would use the toyota pcv just beacause it closes when there is no pressure on it.

MalcolmV8

I have a pretty good idea what you're talking about just from the description. I tried that site you listed but only find part numbers and listings, not an actual pic.

http://www.acuraoemparts.com/delray/...t&ListAll=Part

I don't have a catch can yet but I'm about to order one so there will be one. Good tip though if one has none.

racebum

i THINK it's the joint, when you go to the dealer you can check out the picture before you order. the black box will have a grommet in it, then the joint that connects it and the tube. that joint can fit your 5/16" hose

MalcolmV8

Question. What if I just leave my factory PCV valve in place hooked up to the intake manifold as it stands? When in normal driving it'll pull air through the block and into the intake as normal and when under boost the PCV will just simply shut and stop air going into the block. To vent blow by from the block under boost I could have the valve cover going to a catch can with a mini air filter. I could even weld in a couple more vents to the valve cover so it can get the volume of air it needs out of the block under boost if need be.

Thoughts? I like that idea because when out of boost the engine will be sucking air through the block all the time which is a great way to pull out those nasty gasses and contaminants you get from blow by.

Here's a Lexus motor I just repaired last week because the PCV system was clogged up and not doing it's job. This vehicle had its oil changed every 3 to 5k miles so this was not due to lack of oil changes.

Oil pan (was about 1/2" thick)



Inside of engine when oil pan was pulled

racebum

simple way is to run a line from the black box to a catch can and then the valve cover vent to the intake tube before the turbo. you will have a vacuum effect before the turbo to add neg pressure to the engine.

the OE pcv system is a piece of **** is extremely flow limited.

if you're dead set on running pcv or have convinced yourself that the lack of it causes those pics, go buy a pcv from a 94+ supra turbo and rig it between the box and intake manifold. i think more than one forum member has done this since it's easy to adapt and shuts under pressure

thread you can read

http://www.d-series.org/forums/force...lve-honda.html

covers some of the popular fixes

Whiterice-gsr

^^^ yup i got the idea from here too. it does work. if u put the pcv line after the turbo basically how it is now u will be creating a boost leak and adding more pressure to the crank case, it will not be good that way. theres a reason why we all go the catch can route and thats becasue its easy and it works.the pcv is just to catch those fumes and re enter them into the combustion chamber to reduce emissions, as long as the vent is there u are still venting the crankcase whether it goes to atmosphere back in the intake or into a catch can doesnt really matter as long as pressure is getting out.

Whiterice-gsr

as for the pics,thats pretty effin gross in there man. im not convinced a pcv blockage could casue that

MalcolmV8

Cool thanks for the info guys. I ordered the accura "joint" for lack of better term from the Honda dealer today. It's the piece you push into the black box once removing the PCV valve. It should be here tomorrow.

I read over that link posted above and it has a link to these valves

http://www.mcmaster.com/#standard-check-valves/=g9iezd

Once you go to that link if you click on "Quick-Opening Brass Check Valves" you will see the check valve I have in mind. Very cool little thing. I may use one of those between the intake manifold and the crank case so it'll still pull air through the block and suck stuff out in normal driving and when under boost it'll seal completely unlike a PCV valve and actually hold up to 1000 PSI which is WAY more than my turbo will ever see Oh and I'll pass that through a catch can too.

Thanks for the ideas, seems there are a few ways to get this done.

MalcolmV8

Yeah that was a disaster. I did some googling and it appears to be a much bigger problem.

http://www.autosafety.org/toyota-bro...repair-program

Her RX300 is on that list they identify. Clearly there are more issues at hand than just her clogged PCV after reading those links. One page I found also sited 60F or more difference in temp between cylinder head and block is causing the issue too. Apparently Toyota made the water passages smaller in the cylinder head to restrict flow and increase head temps to reduce emissions but oil doesn't like the super hot head and cooler block and as it constantly flows across the two sludge forms too. At least that's one contributing factor sited.

Whiterice-gsr

is there a TSB for that thing.

MalcolmV8

Unfortunately not. Toyota insists there's nothing wrong with those motors and it's owner neglect. However they extended vehicle warranties to include engine replacement from sludge 8 years from original date of purchase even if you're not the original owner of the vehicle. However from what I've read you have to have had your vehicle serviced at the dealership so they have full maintenance records as proof or you're SOL.
Best I can find on the forums is keep the PCV system in top shape. Make sure it' not clogged and functioning properly. Use full synthetic as it seems to be less prone to sludging and change oil every 3k miles. One guy I found replaces his every 2k miles after paying some two thousand dollars to have his engine pulled apart, sludge cleaned out and put back together.

racebum

lack of breathing is another way to look at this. while i bitch about the b18c having a barely capable system, some cars are obviously worse. i would love to see a test where someone drilled the valve cover and ran a catch can with one of those toyotas.

remember back in the pre emission days engines just vented to the atmosphere and did not encounter these problems even with lower quality motor oil.

Whiterice-gsr

probably why i have no issues lol.