1158

...isn't it wonderful? Granted it's not the carnage sometimes reserved for the FI section...but it's enough to **** me off. Car ran fine the last time I drove it and oil pressure was good.

Pullig

valve keeper .... thats not good

Boner_Ben

What is it?

1158

I thought it was a keeper...expletive me. Wonder how long it's been out. Car is still strong and making no strange noises.

!?!expletive me!?! WTF we are sensored now...

advert

at least its not bad. you can still fix that with out taking the head off.

Boner_Ben

Thats what I was thinking. Pull the Valve Cover and take a look.

1158

How much is involved with that? Will I have to pull out the cams and ****? WIll I need any special tools? And more importantly, how the expletive does it get to the oil pan, down an oil passage?

I've done a fair amount of work on engines, but never anything with the head, other than tbelt and such.

slooogsr

Wow dude, open her up and see whats going on........

Thats really weird........

HiProfile

You'll have to look around the cams to see which of the 16 valves has one missing. Its not something that will immediately do anything - its just that once the other works its way out, the valve will drop. A loose valve is the worst thing that can happen, as it will usually destroy block AND head.

You'll likely have to take out a cam to do this. Then fill the cylinder with pressurized air via spark plug hole, rent/make a spring compressor, put in new keepers (assuming valve groove is okay), then re-adjust each valve on that cam.

As to how it got down in the pan, our motors have 4 ~3/4" square vents/stacks that go from the crankcase to the head to drain oil from the head & vent crankcase pressure.

1158

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by HiProfile &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You'll have to look around the cams to see which of the 16 valves has one missing. Its not something that will immediately do anything - its just that once the other works its way out, the valve will drop. A loose valve is the worst thing that can happen, as it will usually destroy block AND head.

You'll likely have to take out a cam to do this. Then fill the cylinder with pressurized air via spark plug hole, rent/make a spring compressor, put in new keepers (assuming valve groove is okay), then re-adjust each valve on that cam.

As to how it got down in the pan, our motors have 4 ~3/4" square vents/stacks that go from the crankcase to the head to drain oil from the head & vent crankcase pressure.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well needless to say I will NOT be running this until I get it fixed. I assume if the valve groove is bad the head needs to come off and be machined, correct? Can I reuse this keeper? Doesn't seem like the best thing to do, but I'm new to this aspect. I guess I can do some research... What a way to spend my weekend! lol

...esteban

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1158 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well needless to say I will NOT be running this until I get it fixed. I assume if the valve groove is bad the head needs to come off and be machined, correct? Can I reuse this keeper? Doesn't seem like the best thing to do, but I'm new to this aspect. I guess I can do some research... What a way to spend my weekend! lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

The cylinder head is not that complicated. The groove mentioned is on the top of the valve, so nothing to worry about machining, if anything you'll have to replace a valve and its retainer, nothing expensive, just requires the head to be pulled which isn't anything to bad either, just time consuming...

don't be afraid of working on the cylinder head, assuming this is a twin cam motor, just pull the cams out, and the rockers can be "rotated" up and out of the way. Now you can see the top of the valve with the retainers and the keepers. One of the 16 will be missing a keeper for obvious reasons.

Good Luck! and take pics when you find out whats goin' on

1158

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ...Lost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

The cylinder head is not that complicated. The groove mentioned is on the top of the valve, so nothing to worry about machining, if anything you'll have to replace a valve and its retainer, nothing expensive, just requires the head to be pulled which isn't anything to bad either, just time consuming...

don't be afraid of working on the cylinder head, assuming this is a twin cam motor, just pull the cams out, and the rockers can be "rotated" up and out of the way. Now you can see the top of the valve with the retainers and the keepers. One of the 16 will be missing a keeper for obvious reasons.

Good Luck! and take pics when you find out whats goin' on</TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks for the help. I'm pulling the cover as I type this. I've had the bottem end apart before, but never really messed with head much. Gotta get my feet wet sometime. So if all looks well, I can just snap the old one in place? WHat would cause it to come out? The head has toda springs, stock valves, CTR cam and stock retainers. I'm wondering if I should go with an aftermarket retainer, but I don't want TI. I would want something that lasts longer...

...esteban

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1158 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Thanks for the help. I'm pulling the cover as I type this. I've had the bottem end apart before, but never really messed with head much. Gotta get my feet wet sometime. So if all looks well, I can just snap the old one in place? WHat would cause it to come out? The head has toda springs, stock valves, CTR cam and stock retainers. I'm wondering if I should go with an aftermarket retainer, but I don't want TI. I would want something that lasts longer...</TD></TR></TABLE>

to replace or put back the keeper, you'll need a valve spring compressor tool, and have an air compressor pressurize the cylinder so the valve doesn't drop. The air compressor will keep the valve seated and sealed against the head. Now you can push down on the retainer, and thus the spring, and remove the keepers and take a look at the valve stem and retainer.

Each valve spring compressor tool is different as far as operation, but perform the same job, which to compress the vs, and allow you to put both keepers in the retainer, and slowly uncompress the spring so the keepers get "stuck" and hold the retainer in place. It's really quite simple when you look at it.

1158

Man this is weird...I swear I'm not missing any. I'm going to go back out and look again...it is tough to see some of them, but it looks like they are all there!

Boner_Ben

Is this a stock head? If not then maybe whoever took it apart before dropped a keeper and never bothered to look for it.

rmcdaniels

I get those in my oil pan all the time. When I'm changing valve springs to degree my cams I'll drop one occasionally and it falls down the big oil passage into the pan. I just get another one from one of my junk heads and leave it be until the next time that I drop the pan on that motor. It should be pretty easy to see if they are all there if you take off the cams. I wouldn't worry about if there aren't any missing ones.

1158

I had Jack at P1 do a spring/cam install for me in Jan. I wonder if he dropped one and forgot to tell me. Man that would make my day...I just sent him an email I tried calling him but the number is no longer valid. Anyone know anything about them? Jack is a really cool guy, hope everything is ok.

rmcdaniels

I'd bet that was it, any time you replace the springs with the head on (I use a compressed air fitting and do it from time to time) it's real easy to drop those little keepers, especially if you have giant fingers and are clumsy, like me. If he did drop one, then there's no reason for him to tell you about it, as long as he put another one in there so all the valves have keepers, one in the oil pan isn't going to hurt anything. If he does enough spring replacements, then he may not remember if he dropped one in your motor anyway.

...esteban

just check all your keepers, if there's two per retainer, you're in good shape, and dont worry about it...

1158

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rmcdaniels &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'd bet that was it, any time you replace the springs with the head on (I use a compressed air fitting and do it from time to time) it's real easy to drop those little keepers, especially if you have giant fingers and are clumsy, like me. If he did drop one, then there's no reason for him to tell you about it, as long as he put another one in there so all the valves have keepers, one in the oil pan isn't going to hurt anything. If he does enough spring replacements, then he may not remember if he dropped one in your motor anyway. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I agree, no reason to tell me, but Jack is **** that way. He probably forgot, it was a busy day for him. Long day too. He did the cam/spring swap and then dynoed the car all in the same day. I drove from Wilmington and he didn't want me paying for a room. I found a thread about P1, sounds like he is still tuning and stuff, just moved where he tunes. I sent him an email. I just want to make sure I'm not missing one. I haven't pulled the cams yet...so I'm hoping he emails me back and tells me not to worry. Man was a freaked...though I was going to use this as an exuse to build for 400 whp!

1158

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ...Lost &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just check all your keepers, if there's two per retainer, you're in good shape, and dont worry about it...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I've checked about 5 times...I even had my wife look lol. Don't seem to be missing any... I'm still going to wait and see if I get a reply from Jack.

havok hybrid

No doubt the valve would drop in a couple seconds if keeper was to pop out.

Glad you found it. At least it was at the bottom the whole time.

a1320addict

iTrader: (1)

doesn't look good

1158

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by havok hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">No doubt the valve would drop in a couple seconds if keeper was to pop out.

Glad you found it. At least it was at the bottom the whole time.</TD></TR></TABLE>

So you think the valve would drop even if just half the keeper was missing? I just checked again and everything looks to be in order. All the valves look to be in straight...nothing looks out of place!

BlueSi2k

I've dropped one too. Couldn't get a new one quick either so i had to drop the pan. Im sure thats what it was. I dont know if half the keeper would hold the valve that long. If your not sure take a pic and post it up.