Longevity of ITR pistons under boost
 

I jrsc'd my ITR about 3 years ago and have never experienced a mechanical problem due to the boost, including 20+ hpde events. I currently run 6-7psi.

I am in the process of rebuilding my motor (engine seized b/c of oil starvation - long story). I will need to buy oversize pistons because I need to overbore .20 over to get rid of scarring in the cylinder walls. That said, I need to decide whether to go back with regular ITR pistons or if I NEED to go with forged pistons for the engine to be reliable. It seems to me the regular ITR pistons have served me well for 20+ hpde events are hard, 5000-9000 rpm driving. However, some guys swear that the ringlands of ITR pistons are too weak for my boost levels and sustained high-rpm driving on the track.

Everything else being equal, I'd rather use oem internals instead of buying aftermarket parts. However, I don't want to use oem internal parts at the expense of reliability. Does anyone have an opinion whether I've been "lucky" for the past 3 years with my ITR pistons, or are ITR pistons sufficiently reliable at 6-7 psi?

I'm not looking to increase boost levels above 8psi, so please don't recommend forged internals for this reason. I plan to turn the R into a race car in the near future, in a class that requires stock engine parts. This is one of my reasons to prefer oem parts.

Re: Longevity of ITR pistons under boost (Batoutahell)
 

Somebody knows. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: Longevity of ITR pistons under boost (Batoutahell)
 

Honestly, you have the motor down, why not upgrade? A set of endyn 9.5:1's so you can feel comfortable that you won't loose your low end https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif and some good rods and you're set.

Go with CP pistons and eagle rods.
Im earl for pricing and advice.

What EMS are you running ?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Batoutahell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I'm not looking to increase boost levels above 8psi, so please don't recommend forged internals for this reason. I plan to turn the R into a race car in the near future, in a class that requires stock engine parts. This is one of my reasons to prefer oem parts.</TD></TR></TABLE>

C'mon guys give me a break. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emdgust.gif I thought I did a good enough job explaining why I don't want this thread to spiral out of control into recommendations for forged internals. I'm just looking for an answer to my question.

I'm running hondata.

Re: (Batoutahell)
 

Do you think they are really going to pull your head off to see if your pistons are stock?

Re: (Batoutahell)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Batoutahell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

C'mon guys give me a break. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emdgust.gif I thought I did a good enough job explaining why I don't want this thread to spiral out of control into recommendations for forged internals. I'm just looking for an answer to my question.

I'm running hondata.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I didn't recommend forged pistons so that you can crank the boost up, I recommended forged pistons just because they are so much stronger for 8 pounds of boost. I had a JRSC car and on stock pistons I eventually melted a few because the JRSC pours so much heat into the motor. A set of high quality forged pistons will take this abuse better, and end up lighter as well. If your original pistons lasted that long you don't have any personal evidence to need to go with some aftermarket ones, maybe you just have a spot-on tune and don't need forged ones. If you're dead set on that class that needs the stock OEM internals, I would strongly consider an LRC intercooler for the JRSC, because that would help a lot for keeping the temps down, and maybe throw a thicker HG on there or have the head opened up as well.

Re: (mtber)
 

You don't have to use ITR pistons.
You can use OEM oversized LS pistons if you like...

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blazin Civic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Do you think they are really going to pull your head off to see if your pistons are stock?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well now, that would be a cheater's mentality, not my style.

b16sedan: good point about intercooling the jrsc. I've considered water cooling for a few years, but decided that it's not really necessary if I stay under 8psi.

Let me clarify my goals a little more. When I say I may race the ITR in the foreseeable future, it would be with a stock engine (overbored is legal), i.e., the jrsc would come off the car if/when it becomes a race car. For the time being, my car with the jrsc installed is just for hpde fun use.

I did have a very good tune with my jrsc, but I have a seed of doubt planted in my mind that it may have been dumb luck that my ITR pistons lasted so long. Are ITR pistons known to be reliable at 6-7psi during sustained high-rpm track driving? This, this is the question I'm trying to answer. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: (Batoutahell)
 

I personally wouldnt road race an itr motor on boost and expect it to last.

If I was in your situation, I would just build the motor for an n/a application using OEM parts. Sell the S/C and call it a day.

Re: (mtber)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mtber &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I personally wouldnt road race an itr motor on boost and expect it to last.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Fair enough. What part(s) would you expect would fail (at 6-7psi) while road racing, and why? This is the information that I'm after. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: (Batoutahell)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Batoutahell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fair enough. What part(s) would you expect would fail (at 6-7psi) while road racing, and why? This is the information that I'm after. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

pistons for sure, i personally think the rods could hold up. The stock cast pistons are not strong enough to be able to handle all that boost all the time in a hpde environment in my opinion. However, you have proved that they can more than i would ever deem likely https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif

37K on boost here so far.

Re: (Batoutahell)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Batoutahell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Fair enough. What part(s) would you expect would fail (at 6-7psi) while road racing, and why? This is the information that I'm after. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

Pistons/Ringlands under that kinda abuse.

Re: (Boondock Saint)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boondock Saint &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">37K on boost here so far.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Do you beat on your motor on a road coarse at high R's for long periods of times ?
If you do and its still ok, your one lucky man.

Re: (mtber)
 

Do the ringlands fail because of the heat, the boost or both? Besides the obvious thing that they metal in the ringlands is thinner, I'd like to know why they're the weak link. Is it cracking or melting that's the danger?

Re: Longevity of ITR pistons under boost (Batoutahell)
 

The only thing that could possibly cause the ringlands to fail is a bad tune.
If your car is tuned halfway decent, and you've taken into consideration the sustained high rpm driving you will be doing, then you will have no problems.
At the boost levels your running, the ringlands wont fail because of excessive horsepower.

Re: Longevity of ITR pistons under boost (rioninja)
 

if u wanna have fun, up the comp, keep the boost at 8psi https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif .


if you want to keep stock parts, do it. dont let HT sway your opinion on it because we are all going to say afteramrket all the time, when it coems to high comp motors and boost. these parts your putting back in arent made for boost, and thats what i think some of the people in here are trying to say when they advise "go forged!!"

ringlands crack, usually from detonation or a bad tune

Re: (Batoutahell)
 

sorry nobody is answering your question....so i will

any piston will fail with bad tune, so ill take it as a given your tune will be good. The main thing you have to watch is heat. If you don't have an egt gauge you might want to invest in one. not staying in boost for too long of time is key to your stock piston longevity.

itr pistons = higher comression + boost = not gonna last very long period. i dunno if its jus "dumb luck" but this girl in my area had a turbo integ gsr with itr pistons. she swore they were stronger then regular gsr pistons n she kept either melting them or the ring lands would fry. my opinion on any day. forged or gsr pistons.

OEM honda pistons are not made to handle boost nor are they made to handle boost in road racing conditions.

Boosting a motor with 10.6:1 c/r on oem pistons is fine, but the minute you start running that setup for long periods of time under boost, you will be just waiting for something to go wrong.

If you want to stay boosted go forged while its apart.

Re: (Batoutahell)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Batoutahell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">C'mon guys give me a break. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emdgust.gif I thought I did a good enough job explaining why I don't want this thread to spiral out of control into recommendations for forged internals. I'm just looking for an answer to my question.

I'm running hondata.</TD></TR></TABLE>

if i were you,i would upgrade to forged internals..
they say stock pistons are good until 300whp..

Forged pistons will last alot longer..

Re: (Jordo)
 

like another user stated, and egt(exhuast gas temp) guage would be highly beneficial to the longetivity of such an engine. gotta keep that Hoe' in check. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif
it isnt the hp, that is gonna "kill" the pistons, its the heat from the sustained rpm. the heat will kill most any oem piston. which could also destroy your cyl. a small crack could turn into a large crack, which could result in your rods, destroying the block. (putting massive holes in your block, leaving you assed out, and your block useless.)

Re: Longevity of ITR pistons under boost (Batoutahell)
 

for all the money you are spending, its worth it to get stronger internals. it might cost more money, but well worht it. i woudlnt even bother to rebuild with stock internals, get used gsr block + itr head, and you have lower comression out the box

Re: (Batoutahell)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Batoutahell &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Well now, that would be a cheater's mentality, not my style.

b16sedan: good point about intercooling the jrsc. I've considered water cooling for a few years, but decided that it's not really necessary if I stay under 8psi.

Let me clarify my goals a little more. When I say I may race the ITR in the foreseeable future, it would be with a stock engine (overbored is legal), i.e., the jrsc would come off the car if/when it becomes a race car. For the time being, my car with the jrsc installed is just for hpde fun use.

I did have a very good tune with my jrsc, but I have a seed of doubt planted in my mind that it may have been dumb luck that my ITR pistons lasted so long. Are ITR pistons known to be reliable at 6-7psi during sustained high-rpm track driving? This, this is the question I'm trying to answer. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif </TD></TR></TABLE>

There's no magical number as to how long stock pistons will last under boost.

Considering you're looking at turbos + HPDE's, I'll say "not that long" because there's no way of giving you a proper answer (other than what everyone else has said).

https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emdgust.gif