Laminova, a very different water to air intercooler.
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Laminova, a very different water to air intercooler.
We're playing with water to air I/cooling here in Australia but we're going in a different direction to the normal cores used and we are using Laminova cores.
We've got one up and running on a petrol engined 4x4 another will be in a couple of weeks on a diesel 4x4 and another one on the go on a turbo'd BMW 3.5 litre.
All of these use 4 cores but we've got plans for a monster 12 core one on a twin turbo'd LS1 Chev in a 52 Ford Mercury. (lots of room to play with there) It's currently set up with a big Vortech supercharger but we think twin turbo is the go.
The 1st one's not my design, it was built by a friend and I just had to stick it together so we learned a lot on this one and are constantly refining them as we go.
The 2nd one is for a diesel Nissan 4x4 and I've built it into the inlet manifold. I made a bolt on snout to allow access to the injectors, rails and glow plugs and to allow for the valve cover to be removed for tappet servicing etc.
The 3rd one I'm looking forward to, it's on the BMW, it's still a 4 core but differing design again, a very short path from turbo to inlet. It's also got a very nice Turbonetics GTK turbo on it.
Regards Andrew from Oz.
We've got one up and running on a petrol engined 4x4 another will be in a couple of weeks on a diesel 4x4 and another one on the go on a turbo'd BMW 3.5 litre.
All of these use 4 cores but we've got plans for a monster 12 core one on a twin turbo'd LS1 Chev in a 52 Ford Mercury. (lots of room to play with there) It's currently set up with a big Vortech supercharger but we think twin turbo is the go.
The 1st one's not my design, it was built by a friend and I just had to stick it together so we learned a lot on this one and are constantly refining them as we go.
The 2nd one is for a diesel Nissan 4x4 and I've built it into the inlet manifold. I made a bolt on snout to allow access to the injectors, rails and glow plugs and to allow for the valve cover to be removed for tappet servicing etc.
The 3rd one I'm looking forward to, it's on the BMW, it's still a 4 core but differing design again, a very short path from turbo to inlet. It's also got a very nice Turbonetics GTK turbo on it.
Regards Andrew from Oz.
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Re: Laminova, a very different water to air intercooler.
looks nice but it also looks space consumning compared to a standard A2W intercooler or barrel style A2W intercooler.
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Re: Laminova, a very different water to air intercooler.
Rather compact for a very high surface area. JRSC's usually use those for aftercoolers, since space is so limited. I like you Australians, you'll try anything. However, they are only as useful when pushing lots of really hot air. Up until a high power level (or crappy turbo selection), rows upon rows will only be a restriction.
BTW Double-check those flanges for warpage on the I-6, they seem pretty thin BTW is that mechanical fuel injection? Or direct-port nitrous with the carb not installed??
BTW2 are the tubes in that 12-core IC touching? Very interesting arangement.
BTW Double-check those flanges for warpage on the I-6, they seem pretty thin BTW is that mechanical fuel injection? Or direct-port nitrous with the carb not installed??
BTW2 are the tubes in that 12-core IC touching? Very interesting arangement.
#5
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Re: Laminova, a very different water to air intercooler.
For the heat exchanging efficiency, they are actually smaller than a traditional A/W intercooler core. They also have a very low pressure drop.
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Re: Laminova, a very different water to air intercooler.
The 1st part is the secret to how they work, "Huge surface area" as for restriction, not a problem. The Nissan 4x4 one has a pressure loss of 0.2 psi at 11 psi boost. (we've got it running but haven't set up the heat exchanger to cool the water yet)
Now here's the freaky bit, on the 1st one we built on a 40 series Toyota 4x4 with air temps into the turbo of 26C and post turbo at 82C at 8.5psi boost the temps out the intercooler were 32C.
So we are knocking 50C temps out with the intercooler and it has a flat line temp rise above the ambient turbo inlet temps of 5C.
Put it into perspective, we are dropping temps of 50C in the space it takes for the air to pass the core and its support tube. So on one side of the tube it's 82C and 2" (that's inches not feet) away from it as it crosses through the core it's 32C.
You're right about the tubes touching on that 12 core it makes sense to minimise welding and any possible problems of distortion so we're machining the tubes and endplates to suit.
Regards, Andrew from Oz.
ps: here's link to how my mate Matt gets his kicks with his Laminova intercooled FJ Yota.
http://s81.photobucket.com/albums/j2...icWinch08c.flv
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#9
Re: Laminova, a very different water to air intercooler.
It's a DIESEL
Last edited by MattMc; 01-16-2009 at 08:25 AM.
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Re: Laminova, a very different water to air intercooler.
Is it better or not than a conventional air-air intercooler with all the piping(on a turbo setup)?
#12
Re: Laminova, a very different water to air intercooler.
Results for one we tested are 26% more kw and 29% more torque. TD42
Full details here. http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/showt...light=laminova
Before and after instal dyno results
Before and After intercooler intake temp after 5 or 6 runs on the dyno and a thrashing to the dyno. The heat soak has been resolved with the addition of a second thermo fan,
Pre and Post MAP
Full details here. http://www.patrol4x4.com/forum/showt...light=laminova
Before and after instal dyno results
Before and After intercooler intake temp after 5 or 6 runs on the dyno and a thrashing to the dyno. The heat soak has been resolved with the addition of a second thermo fan,
Pre and Post MAP
#14
Re: Laminova, a very different water to air intercooler.
#15
Re: Laminova, a very different water to air intercooler.
My 4.2 straight 6 petrol. GT3082R @ 9psi. Max rpm 5000
Pre and post MAP across the intercooler.
Pre and post temps across the intercooler.
Oh yes in the first graph Blue lines are Marin's Mav :lol: 4.2Turbo Diesel
Pre and post MAP across the intercooler.
Pre and post temps across the intercooler.
Oh yes in the first graph Blue lines are Marin's Mav :lol: 4.2Turbo Diesel
#16
Re: Laminova, a very different water to air intercooler.
Been a while but here is some new info.
So I shipped a generic 4 core.
We made 358bhp 8bhp more than target figure.
Intercooler is on the right positioned vertically. Pic's thanks to John Wheeler.
The testing and tuning was done in the UK by Julian Godfery Engineering on an engine dyno.
First up the PWR 5x10 Barrel
Our generic bolt on 4 core without tuning.
Graph of the above pair.
Final data after re tuning to suit our intercooler.
Customers final thoughts.
Cutting the inevitable long story short,....just dyno'd my engine with a PWR 5x10 air/water barrel chargecooler which showed poor results even with a constant cold water feed from the mains.
Exit air temps were 40°c+ and rising.
Engine is a 4 cylinder 2 litre 12v Renault unit with GT2860RS turbo @ 24psi boost, Motec controlled.
335 bhp & 313ft/lbs torque. Target figure was 350bhp.
Engine design aspiration to give "close to n/a performance" hence small size turbo/high boost.
Car is an Alpine Renault A110 replica, hence rear engined, with narrow width, full size front rad for chargecooler, water pipe run from position of chargecooler at rear of engine to front mounted rad approx 11ft.
Having scoured the internet it looks like you have an air/water solution that actually works.
Should I go for your Generic Bolt On Intercooler or is that overkill for circe 350 bhp?
Will I need multiple pipe runs the length of the car for input/output of water circulation?
Your help & advice much appreciated, this is a genuine enquiry.
Thanks,
John Wheeler (UK)
Exit air temps were 40°c+ and rising.
Engine is a 4 cylinder 2 litre 12v Renault unit with GT2860RS turbo @ 24psi boost, Motec controlled.
335 bhp & 313ft/lbs torque. Target figure was 350bhp.
Engine design aspiration to give "close to n/a performance" hence small size turbo/high boost.
Car is an Alpine Renault A110 replica, hence rear engined, with narrow width, full size front rad for chargecooler, water pipe run from position of chargecooler at rear of engine to front mounted rad approx 11ft.
Having scoured the internet it looks like you have an air/water solution that actually works.
Should I go for your Generic Bolt On Intercooler or is that overkill for circe 350 bhp?
Will I need multiple pipe runs the length of the car for input/output of water circulation?
Your help & advice much appreciated, this is a genuine enquiry.
Thanks,
John Wheeler (UK)
We made 358bhp 8bhp more than target figure.
Intercooler is on the right positioned vertically. Pic's thanks to John Wheeler.
The testing and tuning was done in the UK by Julian Godfery Engineering on an engine dyno.
First up the PWR 5x10 Barrel
Our generic bolt on 4 core without tuning.
Graph of the above pair.
Final data after re tuning to suit our intercooler.
Customers final thoughts.
Hi Matt,
First results show that the HB outperforms the PWR!!
Increase in bhp & torque at slightly lower boost pressure, across the entire rev range
This is with the GT2680RS & Davies Craig pump.
I have attached the comparison Dyno sheet, (HB is detailed in black, the PWR in red) and the detailed results for 2860+HB .
Air temps, 26°in 38°out
The test with the GT2871 R showed that the GT2860RS was the better unit all the way upto 6400 rpm. (It also suffered from compressor surge low down, diameter of wheel too big)
Air temps 28°in 36°out
Just had Julian on the phone, more improvements:
Air temps- In 29° Out 38°
Water temp- In30° Out36°
Bhp- starting @ 5,800 rpm reached 358bhp!!! (+11bhp)
I think you should have a few beers on the strenght of this, I am!!
Kind Regards,
John
First results show that the HB outperforms the PWR!!
Increase in bhp & torque at slightly lower boost pressure, across the entire rev range
This is with the GT2680RS & Davies Craig pump.
I have attached the comparison Dyno sheet, (HB is detailed in black, the PWR in red) and the detailed results for 2860+HB .
Air temps, 26°in 38°out
The test with the GT2871 R showed that the GT2860RS was the better unit all the way upto 6400 rpm. (It also suffered from compressor surge low down, diameter of wheel too big)
Air temps 28°in 36°out
Just had Julian on the phone, more improvements:
Air temps- In 29° Out 38°
Water temp- In30° Out36°
Bhp- starting @ 5,800 rpm reached 358bhp!!! (+11bhp)
I think you should have a few beers on the strenght of this, I am!!
Kind Regards,
John
Last edited by MattMc1; 11-22-2010 at 11:36 PM.
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