mrlegoman

Repost from Tech but with FI specific questions below.

I know this topic has been debated to death. But I have some actual lab results that at first glance seem surprising.

Disclaimer: This was a track weekend test. So I would not say these results speak for a daily driven car under normal driving conditions.

B18C1 Full-Race GT28RS kit
ITR Expo 7 & 8

Both test oil came from events at VIR. Both had a total of 300 miles on the oil, with ~115 track miles.
6-8K rev average
~280-300 oil temp



First test: Castrol GTX 10W-30
Note from lab:: We always think it's a good idea to change the oil after you race an engine. Oil is far cheaper than engines and
we've seen a lot of ugly engines that have the oil run too long when the engine is used for racing. That's not what we
found here. Wear from your Honda looks good. Universal averages for the 1.8L are based on an oil run of ~4,200
miles. Most of your wear was close to average after only 338 miles use, so it was a good time to change it out. The
low viscosity wasn't due to any fuel and isn't a big concern. All in all, things look pretty good here.

Holy moly!! So after ~115 miles on track, my oil looked like it came out of a car with 4200 miles on it!!

Second test: Amsoil 10W-30
Note from lab: You can see the differences in this oil from the last that you sampled in the additive package. This oil contains
more molybdenum, boron, and calcium. Moly is an anti-wear additive, while boron and calcium are
detergent/dispersants. Wear was a little lower in this sample but not enough to indicate that this oil works better than
the other. Both came up with slightly low viscosities but both seem to work equally well for you. We see nothing in this
data that would point to any obvious problems developing. We'd use the less expensive oil.


Now obviously this doesn't mean the synthetic is a waste of money for a normally driven vehicle.
This test does not show what happens for an extended period. From all the claims for the synthetics, I would bet that they will maintain and steady viscosity over time whereas the GTX might drop considerably.
But my conclusion would be that I'm not gaining anything by using a synthetic for just a track weekend. For the price, I could change out the GTX twice and it would still be cheaper then a single Amsoil change.

Because of oil temps and that I've spent my oil only after 300 miles, some other test are going to be made.
First, is going to try GTX 20w-50 on the track and run the test again.
My only concern with changing to such a heavy oil is going to be the excess strain it might cause on my oil pump. Any insight or coments would be helpful.

Second, oil cooler.
Mounting location is going to be an issue though. Not a lot of room left.
Also, oil pressure may now be an issue.

Or third, stick with Castrol GTX and change before/during/after a event and not worry about it as long as temps don't peak over 300.

Questions for guys running boost on track:
Have you ever had oil pressure issues from running an oil cooler or any other issues running a heavier weight oil?

Amsoil Data Sheet
http://amsoil.com/storefront/atm.aspx


Castrol Data Sheet
http://www.castrol.com/liveass...a.pdf



Modified by mrlegoman at 12:53 PM 6/26/2008

batboyvaj

i just ran my car, 2l gsr, 2871r, 19 row setrab cooler at BIR. I did not notice any odd drops in oil pressure. I'm running VP racing 10w40

dr_latino999

This is some good information here, thanks for taking the effort to document this.

tokesGTR

Good stuff.

My engine builder swears by Castrol GTX with frequent changes, and I see no reason to go against that. I'm spending less money to change the oil every 2500 KM's with a mobil 1 filter and castrol GTX than I do changing it every 5000 with amsoil and a wix filter, so why not.

purpleh22

There are a few different Amsoil synthetics. Which one was this? I'm currently using Amsoil racing oil. The lab tests they advertise focus on wear resistance to pressure. Maybe difference shows up under longer term stress??

mrlegoman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by purpleh22 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">There are a few different Amsoil synthetics. Which one was this? I'm currently using Amsoil racing oil. The lab tests they advertise focus on wear resistance to pressure. Maybe difference shows up under longer term stress??</TD></TR></TABLE>I'm using their standard 10W-30 that I linked to.
http://www.amsoil.com/storefront/atm.aspx

95dxsir2

where did you get these results from? did you send a sample out?

mrlegoman

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95dxsir2 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">where did you get these results from? did you send a sample out?</TD></TR></TABLE>
http://www.blackstone-labs.com/index.html
Cost per analysis w/ shipping is about 25$

*Boostwerks*

I'm willing to bet that an oil cooler would give a lot longer life to both oils. Oil temps past 200, really start to kill both types of oil.

With an oil cooler, I'd totally rock the castrol.

88ED8

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrlegoman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">going to try GTX 20w-50 on the track and run the test again.
My only concern with changing to such a heavy oil is going to be the excess strain it might cause on my oil pump. Any insight or coments would be helpful.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Oil thins when hot, I Run 20w-50 (Valvoline vR1) and it's not as thick as everyone makes it sound and IMO 20w-50 protects the engine/turbo better. someone correct me if I'm wrong...

Tippyman

That's cool, but how does your manifold and dipstick look?

XxRoCkMaNxNEOxX

iTrader: (3)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88ED8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Oil thins when hot, I Run 20w-50 (Valvoline vR1) and it's not as thick as everyone makes it sound and IMO 20w-50 protects the engine/turbo better. someone correct me if I'm wrong...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was thinking about going with this grade on a built motor please chime in as to if this is a good move. I live in houston so its really hot too.

JoePSI

Thanks for giving at least some proof to my odd habits.

I've used castrol gtx 10w-40 w/ a pureone filter in my car since its been turbo'd, I change my oil every 1000 miles. while change the filter every 2 oil changes.

blaze the chemi

When I was boosted I only used Pennzoil 10w-30 dino juice. I would put in 4 quarts and get back +3.5 quarts after 3K miles. It was daily driven in Atlanta traffic, autox'd, and tracked once out in Talladega Gran Prix.

I also changed my filter, usually purolator, every other oil change. The motor is still going strong. I'm about to hit 30K miles on the rebuilt engine. +17K miles was boosted.

I would notice when I tracked my car after 20 minutes or so the engine bay would become heat soaked and my engine temps were climbing (dashboard indicator). I would have a cool down track and then let the car run in the paddock for a few minutes. The valves were ticking like crazy due to the oil thinning out.

When I would restart the car about 30 minutes later it wounded normal. I would rape the car for another 20 minutes before coming once again, heatsoaked.

I did a compression test of the motor recently and it was 210 +/- 5 in all cylinders.

chimmike

I never bought into the whole "amsoil is the best, only amsoil, amsoil ftmfw" crap. This just proves it's not that much better than anything else, especially a basic, super-cheap dino oil.

I use pennzoil platinum because it's had excellent reviews on BITOG.

I don't like using dino just because it tends to lose viscosity faster over time in the heat of FL.

What surprised me is the flashpoint of Castrol GTX was higher than Amsoil. Interesting.

SovXietday

Awesome information. For whatever reason, I've been using Castrol GTX for all of my cars with fairly frequent changes. After reading this, I'm glad that I have been.

trini-gsr

good info...

i have a boosted gsr with forged pistons/rods, been daily driving it for 2 yrs (50k miles or so). i used to run castrol gtx, now i use castrol syntec...it holds up a lot better than the gtx for daily use. by 1500 miles i'd have to change the gtx, you could notice the difference...i can easily go 4k miles with syntec although i normally change it at 3k. if i didn't daily the car tho...i'd have stuck with the gtx.

i've experimented with several different weights...i usually use 5w-50 in the summers and 10w-30 in the winter...although i just tried 5w-40 and it held up very well on an 11hr 700 mile trip to florida last week (i do this every couple months). only burnt about half a quart of oil. i might switch to using it year round...

chimmike

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by trini-gsr &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">good info...

i have a boosted gsr with forged pistons/rods, been daily driving it for 2 yrs (50k miles or so). i used to run castrol gtx, now i use castrol syntec...it holds up a lot better than the gtx for daily use. by 1500 miles i'd have to change the gtx, you could notice the difference...i can easily go 4k miles with syntec although i normally change it at 3k. if i didn't daily the car tho...i'd have stuck with the gtx.

i've experimented with several different weights...i usually use 5w-50 in the summers and 10w-30 in the winter...although i just tried 5w-40 and it held up very well on an 11hr 700 mile trip to florida last week (i do this every couple months). only burnt about half a quart of oil. i might switch to using it year round...</TD></TR></TABLE>

I'd go on BITOG if I were you and research the analysis results of syntec. It's not so great. Better off using GTX.

IMO the spread (5w50) is not too good. I'd use 15w30 summer if I were you. I use minimum 10w30, and usually use it year round except summers in FL, I ran 15w40 in my turbo 350z.....and that was with a massive oil cooler too.

88ED8

So nobody uses 20w-50....

Under_Pressure

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88ED8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So nobody uses 20w-50....</TD></TR></TABLE>

Bad for a Honda. I also have been using Castrol all my life and so has my dad. I never jumped on the mobil 1 bandwagon. I use **** that has never let me down, Honda's and Castrol.

trini-gsr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 88ED8 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So nobody uses 20w-50....</TD></TR></TABLE>

i used to use 20w-50...lotsa ppl swear by that weight for boosted motors. but it seemed too heavy...i preferred the response of the motor using slightly lighter weight oils...

crx=si

I use 15w-40 desiel oil in my engines with a platteu hone job....you should test out some of those desiel oil and be surprise to see how much more zincs/phosphates/detergent contents in the oil

SOUNDEFFECTS

i use to use 10w30 Castrol GTX back since before 2000. It was only about $6-7 to do an oil change at Walmart by buying the big jugs. It's since gone up some but still dirt cheap. I would change it every 300-500 miles and change the filter every 1000-1500 miles. Never smoked even at 650whp on a 2.0ltr street motor. Bearings, pistons, rockers, valvetrain all looked great when I took it apart and sold it the short block to someone.

I now use the same Castrol GTX on my Supra at around 850rwhp in a 20w50 weight and have the same great qualities. No smoke, no burning, except since it takes about 8qts now I don't change it that often. Maybe 750-1000 miles or so and filter 1500-1750 miles. I love the nonsynthetic oil from Castrol.

Meanwhile I use Mobil 1 20w50 synthetic on my Mercedes E55 that runs perfect but uses maybe 1/4 quart every 3000 miles. I live in hot South FL and find that the heavier weight oil doesn't do anything negative except maybe reduce gas milage by something that I can't even tell.

chubz0r

Any more info or comments on 20w50 for our honda motors?

extralargenog

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