HondaMotive

Hey I bought a fully built H22 off a guy and when I removed the head I noticed these copper looking rings on top of the sleeves. Its almost like there apart of the sleeve. I have heard of O Ringing but I don't thing these are O Rings are they? There is no channel for o ring in the head. The sleeves are apparently LA press in I believe?

Thanks

Turbo-LS

iTrader: (4)

Yes that's what oring looks like. It's a round ring of cover wire to help seal the head gasket

HondaMotive

Okay thanks! I have never dealt with them only seen it done... Where do I get this stuff? Are these machined specially or is this a piece of copper wire from the hardware store? I guess research is my best answer...

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

It's just copper wire, can't remember the diameter off the top of my head, depends on the size of the groove in the sleeve

There will never be a matching groove in the head

HondaMotive

Thanks for the info guys!!

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

If you look through the last 5-10 pages of this forum, someone did a thread on replacing the copper o-ring, it was either Muckman or TurboLS, can't remember which... full of helpful info though.

yours look a little half-assed as there shouldn't be even the slightest of gaps in the ring... and you can clearly see where the ring has been crushed multiple times to the point where it sits below deck height, defeating the purpose in the first place

HondaMotive

Yeah I always thought these rings were made to spec at machine shop but maybe thats stainless steel rings? :S Like I said this is the first O ringed block I work on. The first thing I noticed was the gaps in the copper rings. It almost renders the copper rings useless. The cylinder with the biggest gap was the one that blew the head gasket. Go figure. I will remove rods and crank and inspect bearings and clean it up nicely. The pistons seen to have alot of clearence I wonder what this motor was built to hold.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Well normally the p2w the piston company says isn't enough (35 normally)... most turbo honda motors need at least 40-50 not to scuff the piston. It will slap and sound like a diesel when cold but thats just what forged pistons do

HondaMotive

40-50 what? P2W clearance? P2W clearance is determined by types of alloy pistons are made of and application. What I was saying is it looks like it was built for really high boost as it has alot of over sized work done, huge P2W clearances and these copper crush rings or whatever there referred to as now. I build budget motors usually and this is my first real sleeved and fully built engine. It was running fine when pulled just would push coolant past the HG in boost. Ive these this plenty of times. When I picked it up and removed the head and confirmed the gasket was blowing by but then I seen the copper rings and said ahhhhh. The first one I saw was a little higher then the sleeve, I had thought it dropped the inner liner

Everything looks pretty good so I think I will reassemble with new HG and copper rings. Looking to mostly track this engine High boost/maybe NOS as well but time will tell. Season just ended here so have about 6 months to build a shell and get it in. I will look to touch 11s this year witch should be very reachable with this setup.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Ahobbs posted the write up.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced-induction-16/diy-how-install-copper-o-rings-block-2576605/

You need to ask (or measure) the width of the groove in order to order the proper gauge wire. Its most likely 18 gauge which is .040". And you want the softest wire which is dead soft, uncoated.

HondaMotive

Thanks for being so helpful btw My questions are answered with search but I do like to confirm them I guess I will put some feeler gauges together and figure out the gap size. Should I buy anything special? Over sized under sized? And im guessing I want to try and make the copper ends mate and be very very very very close?

Thanks

HondaMotive

Thanks for the reply!

I was thinking of using feeler gauges and "feeling" the groove? if avrage is .040" then chances are it will be that. It looks like the standard groove everyone has with these sleeves.

Would this be something at a hardware store like Home Depot? Or electrical store? I know inside house hold wiring is copper wire like this but way to thick.

Thanks!!

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

Not at a hardware store. A craft store or jewelry repair will have it. Or Ebay.

boostlsveg

iTrader: (12)

Amazon has it. I got mine from a place called lightning motorsports but it looks like they don't carry it anymore. Just search golden eagle copper o ring on google. That is assuming urs is 18 gauge which im pretty sure they all r but not 100% on that.

HondaMotive

Thanks for the reply.

Im thinking that they are infact .040" channels so I will try to find some .040" annealed copper wire tomorrow locally. If not I will order it on ebay.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

The most important thing is that the copper ring is fully seated in the groove and that the ends are filed flat/even to each other and that they have little to no gap where they meet.

Buy more wire than you think you'll need as it will take a few rounds of trial and error before you get the process perfected

HondaMotive

Haha yeah that's what I figured. I am trying to find a huge roll of it and I might start recommending this to the D series group that keep lifting there heads. I read over your work and that other guys and I seen how important it is to have nice filed and aligned edge. This block had gaps that were pretty big its almost like the last guy to install them didn't know what he was doing. Also his copper wire is like flush with the groove and no crush? I think he used some hardware store wire he pulled from his wall.....


Thanks for all the info guys!

Freemananana

iTrader: (3)

It has to be solid wire, not stranded. I think that is the point a lot of people, including you, are getting across. Right?

HondaMotive

I believe so? I imagine were looking for a solid one piece of copper extruded at .040" right? And they want it to be annealed witch i think means untreated softer? :S

Like house hold wire in the walls.. It has copper solid lines. But way to thick lol