th3pwn3r

What exactly do you mean by "snappy"? A properly sized turbo will crush a supercharged setup in terms of performance on any track. I don't care if it's a straight line, oval, figure 8 or hot wheels track with loops and barrel rolls.

01DC4

iTrader: (3)

Lost is Black, Thanks for sharing! Im looking forward to getting one of these for myself!

OneBadTurboCRV

Snappy power? Haha, a properly set up Turbo setup will provide whatever powerband you are looking for. There is more to building a track car than just slapping a random piece of hardware. You might actually have to delicately piece together something and understand what you are doing first. Last time I checked, a small turbo isn't "snappy" in any sense of the word. This shows you haven't driven a properly set up car before.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

I don't drag race...

That power curve would suck on a road course... midrange is needed, of which this kit makes none with non existent torque

DDTECH

Its an interesting concept, I might try one in the future..

01DC4

iTrader: (3)

Even with a well built small and responsive turbo setup, You still will generate ALOT of heat on a road course quickly. I can definitely see this being a nice alternative.

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

the setup puzzles me greatly, so many better options out there for supercharging.

Pompiuses

I think Rotrex chargers are a great alternative for people that circuit race. The problem is that when you circuit race you need both a full size radiator and power steering (yes you need power steering with big R-compound tires or slics). Since you, by the looks of it, loose both with this kit you automatically rule out a lot of potential customers.

th3pwn3r

Do me a favor and show me the math and how your claim will affect things.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I would agree. Increased cylinder pressures are the same either way. Boost pressure creates additional heat, no matter how you slice it

th3pwn3r

Any time "work" is done heat is created as far I know. However, comparing the two is far from that simple. There's a bit of math you'd have to do to determine what is going to be more efficient and what setup will generate what heat.

01DC4

iTrader: (3)

There is no turbine housing, and you are not cooking your oil threw a center section, Those are two major reasons why it will not generate as much heat. It might not matter on a drag car but it will at a track day when your out doing 20 hard laps at a time.

I would also be willing to bet the air coming out of the rotrex is significantly cooler than air coming it of a turbo.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

Anyone that circuit races has an abundant cooling system, including oil and trans coolers

And oil doesn't heat up that much going through a turbo, not enough to impact the total oil temp

The rotrex unit still requires an oil feed iirc so there will still be heat generated by the gearset within the charger itself, hence why the rotrex has it's own oil cooler. Whatever heat the oil doesn't remove will ultimately be absorbed by the compressor housing causing heat soak in addition to the heat generated by compressing air

rich7777

Do they come with an auto trans as well huh ???

DDTECH

Its a way better setup then JRSC IMO.

01DC4

iTrader: (3)

Im well aware of how cooling works on a circuit car. I also know with a full size radiator, fan, oil cooler etc there just isn't enough room under the hood to seperate everything. You are gonna have all of those things inches from a turbo manifold, turbine housing, wastegate, and down pipe. Even with all of those great things you are still going to have a much higher under hood tempature with a turbocharger compared to a rotrex.

As far as the center section not affecting overall oil temperature for the engine i don't buy that at all.

The Rotrex also does not use a feed it is a self contained system with an oil cooler. I know that i would rather have the heat soak of oil and air compression over oil and a turbine housing.

Think of what the egts are like on a turbo car after a 1/2 mile straight, then hard down shifts, then back to wot lap after lap for 20 minutes non stop.

grumblemarc

iTrader: (4)

Honda and different is an oxymoron.

01DC4

iTrader: (3)

Don't get me wrong i do not think the Rotrex is the be all end all but i definitely see scenarios where it can be superior.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I can see where you're coming from but I've been HPDE circuit racing for 13 years, 10 of them turbocharged. The centrifugal compressor style supercharger guys go through just as much precaution for increased cylinder pressures and oil temps just as much as the Roots-Eaton SC and turbo guys with many of these centrifugal users using larger after cooler and intercoolers then some of turbo guys themselves. All use ducting and other cooling modifications for reduced underhood temps. But the majority of that increased heat is not just from turbine housing and exhaust manifold. It's mainly from those increased cylinder pressures associated with boost (be it supercharger of both types or turbochargers). The Rotrex units may show a bit less of that heat in their street applications, but that's because its running much lower boost pressures than more powerful turbocharger setups. The race version of these Rotrex units show just as high cylinder temps as turbos, in some cases even more depending upon the setup.

When you have any type of Blower or turbocharger, it acts as a compressor of air as its being forced into the combustion chamber. When there's compression and conversion, endothermic heat reaction exists. When those reactions or created, increased cylinder temperatures result, be it for 10 seconds or 10 minutes. Even so, increased oil temperatures will result from those increased cylinder pressures of the engine; much more than just the oil traveling through the CHRA of a turbocharger, so an oil temp gauge is still used in self-contained centrifugal systems.

I do believe that the Rotrex Kit has its place in the aftermarket, but to say its just "better" overall than other forms of forced induction is unrealistic. Each type of forced induction has its advantages and disadvantages. My question really revolves around the amount of parasitic loss that results from shaft-driven compressors in smaller displacement applications.

For example, Here is there Rotrex from Jackson Racing for the Mazda Miata, one the most frequently road raced cars on the circuit. Please note that not only does the kit have a standard Intercooler (heat exchanger), but it also includes the oil cooler (far right), and this is the C.A.R.B legal version. This is because the family-owned company understood that cylinder pressure increases create heat, be it turbocharger or supercharger. So they planned ahead when it came to their development with the understanding that owners would not only drive everyday to work, but because they would also be on the circuit extended periods of time.





Another example. HASport has been in circuit racing for over 15 years and in 2007 set one of the fastest records at Button Willow long course for an FWD car at 2:05.1 on its K-swapped CRX





And that was the with the stock Radiator. Their issue was that even with this setup, they had cylinder temp issues even during the course of the day. They completed it, but understood that there had to be a way to get a better approach.

As they were developing something else, the economy went south, and they had to focus more on the company than exhibition Lap Attack racing. But they had a 94 Prelude chassis (YES. Prelude) in the works that was, of all things, turbocharged to compete better in Lap Attack, using a TSX K24A2, a GT3076R turbocharger, Full Race exhaust manifold and even hired an aerodynamics engineer to work along their fabricator to address the complexities of cooling and downforce..

Recently, it was revealed to the public



Turbo works in HPDE and Lap Attack. But the Rotrex does have its place in the market.

DDTECH

Hardly..

rich7777

How efficient is your avarage 4 stroke engine ? Off the top of my head only 1/3 of the potential engine in the fuel is actually converted into mechanical work. Most of the rest of it is just wasted as heat. No matter what you do, if you increase the power output you'll also be increasing the amount of unwanted heat, one way or another. There's no way around it.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

My oil cooler and trans cooler are on opposite sides of the car behind the fender/bumper and are ducted and force fed air by nascar brake fans, they don't need ambient air exposure.

Not to mention I coat everything, turbine housing, chra, compressor housing, wastegate body, manifold, downpipe and dumptube as well as wrapping if needed, as well as heat shielding to control radiant heat and its effects on other components. I'm working on a system that will supply the engine bay with cool ambient air and also help create a little bit of added downforce/aerodynamic advantage

I forgot the rotrex had an internal pump and sealed oil system.

When tracking a boosted car you "should" have measures to monitor and prevent overly high egts, using safegaurds and compensation tables.. but of course we factor these sort of things into the build to begin with to handle high heat for prolonged periods.

OneBadTurboCRV

Nobody can live outside the box... Why do people always think you HAVE to keep the turbo directly in front of the engine? There is more than one way to skin a cat. Either way, peoples defenses for these units is starting to dwindle. They may be a viable option, but doesn't mean they are a game changer. When something truly innovative comes out, then some will be impressed. Last time I checked, centrifugal chargers have been around for DECADES.

wantboost

iTrader: (2)

^basically

Its just a different package

Now hks' unit is pretty damn cool

Spawne32

iTrader: (3)

lol the auto trans was special plus i believe i was the only one who ever successfully modified a USDM trans computer system to shift above 6800, and the only one who ever successfully swapped a MP7A SIR-G trans into that system.

Who are you before I **** all over you for that comment?