bigG

iTrader: (6)

Im assuming the spool is a few 100 rpms difference but, with 67r already pushing the limits of the gt28 turbine wheel, are people really seeing alot more up top? Cant really see that 560hp even with a small displacement high rpm engine.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Even when you take the driveline loss into account (Making your 560hp about 460whp-476whp w/ 15-18% taken out). No, I think you're either you're seeing a lot of misconfigured dynos, or you're being given a lot of snake oil. Neither one of those can make that power with that combination, be it compressor or turbine wheel.

Most of those I've dealt with on the GTX2867R do about 380whp-400whp max over 25psi in RWD or FWD setups, and about 340whp on AWD setups. Don't know where you're getting 560bhp(460-475whp) from.

bigG

iTrader: (6)

Garrett advertises itas a 560hp turbo. The compressor wheel on a gt30 turbine seems to get close from what i have seen. I am more concerned on how it compares to gtx2867r in terms of peak power if any at all as i assume its already close to the limit with the 67, just dont have any actual data.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Understood. And the GTX3076R looks as though (and has been even advertised in some areas) as over 600whp+ with a 61lbs/min compressor wheel. But guess what? It's not going to do it because of the exhaust wheel limitations of the N111 60mm. Try not to get too caught up in that part of the advertisements. As much as I hate to admit it, Garrett makes some serious errors on some of their products on their catalogs. (Mis-listings, mislabels, etc).

GT3076R Compressor wheels are 52lbs/min. But that takes into account the turbine wheel which is capable of over 560whp (that's about it)

Top end peak power is made by the turbine wheel. So, whether it's GTX2867R, or GTX2871R, look at the naming convention, that's the clue. The Turbine wheel family comes first. So , GTX2871R and GTX2867R use the same 54mm exhaust wheel. The difference of the behaviour of the compressor wheel (higher "spooling", lower "spooling", etc) due to their differences in exducer/inducer sizes and profile.

If Peak power is a concern, then stay out of the GTX28R family of turbine wheels altogether and don't split hairs on the these.. The closest to the GTX2867R with more peak power available is from the GTX3067R turbo. Same compressor wheel, but more peak power from the larger exhaust wheel of the GT30R 60mm turbine found in the GT30R family. "Spool" will be very similar, and off by at most a couple of hundred rpms, depending upon the engine platform.

Hope this helps.

bigG

iTrader: (6)

Its for a d-series so not looking for anything bigger. I am just wondering what difference will be on the turbos, not really looking for peak power specifically. Not limited to 93 octane as it has a secondary fuel system i will use for meth/race fuel.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

I've gone as far as I can tell you without you having to try them out. . Sorry. With the right time and some math, based upon all the information, you can come close to getting some behavioural information. But even your definition of "spool" is different than the true application of it, and really, what works fine as a practical matter, may not be what you're expecting. No one can truly write that type of an opinion for you. You gotta either find someone with exactly your build with exactly your purpose using both, or, at this point, you're going to have to just gamble.

You've been at this for a while, and i know the options are dizzying, but you're at the point of either take a **** or get off the pot. .

bigG

iTrader: (6)

i just ment a simple a to b b comparison, was not getting to in depth as far as goals. i have had a gt2860rs on almost the same setup. just have no experience with the newer gen gtx28. i have seen dynos people claming 470hp/ gtx2871r, 420hp/gtx2867r, and 400hp/gtx2863r. all on the same car no other changes. i was just looking to see if anyone else has seen the same and has had experience with both.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Yeah, you're not going to get that kind of back-to-back comparisons like that, as those are extremely rare. But you seem to be after the peak power aspect of these. Look at it this way; what you're trying to compare is the new version of the 50, 57, and 60 "trim" turbos of the past: All use the same exhaust wheel profile and even the same compressor wheel exducer diameter. The only difference is the inducer size, which really changes the behaviour of the turbo under the curve more than peak power. And for HP, I believe you mean BHP, not to the wheels, as again, you're probably seeing dynos that aren't properly calibrated... Which isn't the point, I'm sure. Their point is the variance of about 30-50whp between the three. It's all in the exducer sizes of the compressor wheel, which is what converts airflow to pressurized air.

bigG

iTrader: (6)

I get what your saying. Was really hoping to see a graph on a honda. Im not really looking at transient response or spool as they should be within 500rpms of each other and no plans for road racing. Just want close to 450whp as possible with out sacrificing to much streetability. The gt2860rs .63 t3 was great on the last setup. Looking for alot more power, hence the secondary fuel system. Thanks for the help.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

No problem, but like I said, you want over 450whp without worrying about the dyno calibration, look to the Gen II GTX2971R, GTX2976R (57mm turbine wheel) and GTX3067R Banshee and similar Gen Is with the 60mm turbine wheel.

bigG

iTrader: (6)

How does the hunter turbo compare to the banshee? I see the hp is alot higher but the lb min difference is only 1

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You should check out the videos of each. They'll tell you the differences and use. The Banshee is GT30R based, while the Hunter is not.

bigG

iTrader: (6)

Well i did and thats why i asked here lol
The description makes it sound like hunter is larger but makes less power and less responsive at certain points and then sometimes reverse.
Hunter = 65mm turbine wheel = gt3071r - gt3076r = 460whp
Banshee = 60mm turbine wheel = gt3067r - gt3071r = 520-530whp

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Your pretty close, but your off on a few points where the comparison isn't that simple. First, the compressor wheel of the GTX3067R & GT3071R are smaller than the Banshee compressor wheel, so Banshee has a bit more upper-midrange power than either of the two . Neither GT3071R nor GTX3067R can make 530whp

GT3076R is 52lbs/min while Hunter is 51lbs/min. Turbine wheel profile of Hunter is a little less efficient than GT3076R (which shared in the entire GT30R family)

bigG

iTrader: (6)

I was actual just reposting whats on the stc site. It says the hunter is 53lbs/min and banshee is 54lbs a min. So out of the two turbos the banshee is more responsive?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

At medium to higher boost pressures, definitely. I'm talking about ball-bearing Hunter to Ball-bearing Banshee. This is because the Banshee doesn't have a Journal Bearing option, so you don't want to misconstrue the comparisons. This is because the turbine wheel profile of the Banshee (as part of the CHRA) is from GT30R family anyway. The Hunter is normally a journal bearing turbocharger with a ball-bearing CHRA option. But both CHRAs use the same turbine wheel size and profile. Although the Hunter's Turbine wheel is larger physically than that of the Banshee, the profile design is a little nicer on the Banshee than the Hunter.