Adi Radoncic

Hey guys,

I'm gona put it down like this for ya My Setup, Problem, Options I have to fix it.

Setup:
B18C1, Stock engine, Inline Pro headgasket, Cam Gears, Vortec 12:1 fmu, 440cc injectors, Vafc, Max Rev exhaust Manifold, 60-1, full 3" exhaust turbo back (no cat), tial 35mm wastgate, type s bov, drag lll intercooler and pipes, stock ignition timing, boost sitting at 13.5 psi right now.

Problem:
On pump gas (92) crusing my egt's are at no more than 1250 degrees, full throttle runs they don't even hit 1400 degrees and my car is running rich as hell plus when I'm just crusing and hit the gas my car almost dies (hesitation) and than picks back up and hauls ***** like it should, I have repetetively checked the plugs and they are black.
On race gas or I should say a mix of 100 or 110 with 92 (I haven't tryed running streight 100 or 110) the car runs considerably better and the hesitation is very minimal but still happens when floored.

Options:
I have tryed to play with the vafc fuel settings and I either end up running rich or way too lean so I just keep it on the rich side to keep the motor safe but now the only thing I have left to work with is my ignition timing.

Can you guys tell me where to try setting the ignition timing at or just simply help me out here because Im to the point of where I'm clueless of how to get this car to run good. I just think that my car has so much potential yet at the same boost level I'm at right now insted of just turning the boost up, so anyways shine a light up on me here fellow honda techers...

Adi :

98Psi ITR

1.Get on a dyno for those WOT runs and see what your a/f is.
2.Run no more than 20 degrees of timing WOT
3.Sometimes leaded and unleaded don't like each other.

SlowTeg

Did you set your cam timing to zero after installing the headgasket? If you're running race gas you'll probably be alright with stock timing (16), or 14 to be safe. I'd ditch the afc/fmu setup and get a real engine management for that setup. It's going to be a pita to tune and get the thing to run well and smooth.

-Mike

Adi Radoncic

I did set the timing back to zero on both the cam gears after the installation of that head gasket, but what do I do about running on pump gas constantly?

Adi

SlowTeg

Uhh... did you set the cam timing back to zero or did you set the cam gears to the setting zero..? Because you want the cam timing set to zero which would not be simply zero on the cam gears. So what's the problem with running on pump gas and no race gas?

-Mike

98Psi ITR

Not part of his options

But if you do get a stand alone, the AEM EMS works very well.

d mafia

with the thicker head gasket, your timing would be advanced. you need to degree the cams.

Mr. Softee

also, your timing will be advanced from the timing belt moving forward. It's probably advanced a couple degrees man...

DR. ON POINT

get a InlinePro headgasket, they work wonders

dbman96

Whoa there everyone...

He's running a 12:1 FMU with 440cc injectors...

unless this is a joke and I totally missed it, that's the problem right there.

TurboTypeR98

what do u mean by "degree the cams"?

ekb18c

Get yourself a standalone, either Hondata or Haltech, DFI. AEM has problems!

SlowTeg

Yup, a standalone is definetly necessary if you're pushing higher boost. Fmu/afc setup .

As far as degreeing the cam goes.. that's not the same as setting the timing to tdc. He probably meant to make sure they're set to tdc, not just set to zero.

-Mike

Adi Radoncic

Ok the cam gears go on the cams in only one way, both the cams and gears were sitting at tdc when I installed my belt and the cam gears them selves are sitting at zero so there is no advance or retard on either cam gear..

On pump gas my car hesitates a lot and just totally runs pritty crapy, while race gas fixes the whole problem equaling less to no hesitation and the car runs better overall...

Adi

Sonny

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

could this be pre-ignition maybe? anyone? u think u could be detonating on pump?

Adi Radoncic

For all of you guys saying get a standalone!!! I hear you and you are totally right there is no way to controll all the fuel and boost I'm pushing right now effectivly with just a piggy back system, but for this year I'm sticking with it, next season I'm getting a standalone for sure...


Now back to this ignition timing problem I have, also can anybody give me any suggestions on how to make this car run better without a standalone and just work with the components I got.

Just wanted to mension this too I just got back from a friends house and on the way back I got on it a couple of times Its about 70 degrees outside and in second gear in the upper rpm's the car starts to pop but its not an engine pop or anything its comming out of the exhaust and the egt's weren't even at 1400 degrees both of the times I got on it. Now third gear is fine and doesn't do it at all....

Adi

Edit: (additional information)


[Modified by newgsr, 1:59 AM 6/27/2002]

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

1) turn down the boost. 12:1 FMU plus 13psi do not add up to a safe level of fuel pressure.

2)anything over 10psi and u need to start pulling out some timing, otherwise u will dotonate or have pre-ignition. im not too keen on how preignition works but watch out for it. either get an MSD BTM or retard your distributor.

3)put on a dyno with wideband and do what u can to tune it.

standalone would be a really wise investment though.

(additional information)- sounds to me like ur car is detonating. sometimes with really advanced timing u will actually lower your EGT's. maybe that is playing some roll as well. 13psi and stock, even worse, advanced ignition timing do NOT mix well with pump gas.



[Modified by DIRep972, 7:59 AM 6/27/2002]

Adi Radoncic

Now just one thing Chris, should I try to advance or retard the timing on it and does it depend on the gas I'm running too.
Is there also a general rule as to advance retard timing at a lower or higher octane rating?

Adi

DIRep972

iTrader: (1)

im no tuner. but basically it works like this. avoiding pre-ignition yet making good power is where u determine where u need to have ur timing set. higher octane takes longer to burn. so therefore with higher octane u want more advanced timing and vise versa.

I think u should be ok with stock timing on 104 octane, but not on pump gas. for pump gas I think I heard 4deg of retard on boost(i mean at 13psi) is a good # to start tuning at. that means in your car u will have to set your distributer to 12deg base timing because 16 is stock.


[Modified by DIRep972, 4:56 PM 6/27/2002]

newsense

You definitely should get a lower ratioed FMU. Or maybe even the adjustable one. Although I have seen it done. I remember JinxProof99 ran 12:1 with 440cc and inline headgasket. Maybe he can help you.

Finest

Check his first post...

Anyways, like everyone said...that 12:1 FMU is most likely the culprit.

Adi Radoncic

I'm definitely gona have to try this, I just have to get a hold of a timing gun and go from there but for now I think I'm just gona get a couple of galons of 110 and see how this works out sence my gas tank is pritty much empty...
I should just turn the boost down too just to be safe till I hit up a dyno.

Adi

Adi Radoncic

I was gona say the same thing I know JinxProof ran the inline pro setup for like a year and a half. Head gasket, 440's, 12:1 fmu, the only difference was that he had a safc instead of a vafc.

Paging: Dr. Jinx Proof ....... Paging Dr. Jinx Proof

I need help...

Adi

X2BOARD

12:1 FMU with the 440 sounds like too much pressure, especially at 13+ psi !!! You are running (with a conservative 45psi base fuel pressure..) at 13psi : 201 psi of fuel ? yikes.... Sounds like the FMU to me... waay to much fuel.

X2