BlueShadow

Hey guys,

I've been sitting here for the last few hours thinking of another low-budget project I can do to my other car. The reason for this is #1 I want to learn how to do my own bottom end rebuilds, and reason #2 I want to try something different. At first I was thinking about just getting a spare b18a block, b16 crank, and b16a head and making a low budget b16b. Then I thought about doing it to my current Benson sleeved 83mm GSR motor. This is my current project car which I'm gonna slap my SC61 (S cover) onto.

Here is what I was thinking:

-keep current SC61 0.70ar cold/0.63ar hot
-keep current B18C head which already has SuperTech 0.5mm OS valves, Ti retainers, valvesprings, and Portflow headwork
-swap GSR cams for aftermarket cams good for up to 10K ish RPMs
-get a lightweight b16a crankshaft from that vendor on H-T (TLC motorsports?)
-swap out my Manley rods (do I get B16a rods or b16b rods? or are they the same?)
-swap out 9.0:1 CP pistons for some that'll give me a CR of 9.5:1 or 10.0:1
-swap out 12lb Action flywheel for 9 lb flywheel
-swap out stock GSR crank pulley for Fluidampr street pulley
-swap out Skunk2 IM for Victor-X IM
-swap out Revhard turbo manifold for SpoolinPerf EL manifold

You guys probably see where I'm going with that setup...fast revving, very high redline. Even though it will have less torque then my current GSR w/ LS crank, I'm thinking it would have a bigger powerband up top. I'm just not sure what kind of cam would be best for this setup, or if the hotside of my turbo is not matched to my new motor specs. So what do you guys think? This is not something I'm just gonna go and do. I'll probably do it if I have to crack open the block for whatever reason.

TIA


Modified by BlueShadow at 5:13 PM 11/26/2005

BlueShadow

hmm...57 views and no replies yet.

siblues

iTrader: (1)

I also would like to see what people have to say about this as I am also doing this? Jdogg has had my car for a few months now and we are patiently awaiting the final parts . Jason and I discussed the benefits of the ls crank and the low end torque but also discussed the loss of the higher revving b18 crank and rods. I didnt really want to rev the motor out that much and the low end torque was very appealing to me and so I went with the ls crank and rods with custom wisecos so I guess we will see how it turns out?

turbotime

whatabout using the b17 crank? isnt a b17 just a stroked b16?

BlueShadow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by turbotime &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whatabout using the b17 crank? isnt a b17 just a stroked b16?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I think a b17a crank in a B18c block would not have as good a RS ratio as a b16a crank in a b18c block. A B17 crank in a b18c block would be like a slightly stroked b16b.

nevin

if your going to do a high reving long rod motor i wouldnt even bother doing it without some serious headwork. You dont really need tq for fast times if your car is light enough and have the hp.

BlueShadow

Right now I've got just some light Portflow headwork along with my SuperTech valvetrain, but thanks for bringing that up. Definately something I'll look into.

turbotime

duhr i didint read it was going into a b18

siblues

iTrader: (1)

Sorry neither did I I totally misunderstood the post! I am a dumbass lol

tokesGTR

Lots of people spin their GSR/LS crank motors to 10K and beyond. You're insane if you even think of doing this for a street motor.

BlueShadow

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tokes1320 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Lots of people spin their GSR/LS crank motors to 10K and beyond. You're insane if you even think of doing this for a street motor.</TD></TR></TABLE>

can you give me a few examples of people who have run their LS cranked GSRs up to 10K RPM's?

seen4ever

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueShadow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

can you give me a few examples of people who have run their LS cranked GSRs up to 10K RPM's?</TD></TR></TABLE>

geoff of full-race

i spun my gsr to 9600 last year, this year i'm going to 10k. with a gsr crank in a b16 block with a deckplate on it.

if the crank is balanced and everything else is balanced and blueprinted, there is no fear for spinning an LS that high.

BlueShadow

What kind of headwork and cams do you guys have done? also any downsides to running your motors up that high? I thought that with that kind of setup there would be more piston sideload. I've heard that talked about a few times when I used to hang around the all motor forums, but I dont know the specifics of how it affects your motor. Just a wild guess, but I'm thinking that excessive sideloading would cause the motor to run a little hotter from the extra friction.

Right now I'm reading up on the pros and cons of piston speed and rod length and how it might be good or bad for a boosted setup. That's the whole reason I started this topic up.

keep the replies coming guys

tokesGTR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueShadow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

can you give me a few examples of people who have run their LS cranked GSRs up to 10K RPM's?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Tony1 has tuned a handful of cars pushing 10.5, 11k and some of them were on LS cranks. I thought Green was pushing 10K on an 84mm LS/VTEC. That hybrid_hatch dude or whatever on an 81.5mm motor with a 42R is/was turning 11K RPM's. I'm sure there's lots more, they're just not publicized.

DaveF

i had my ls/vtec up in the 12k range a few times..... it probably wasnt making power up there.
the ls/vtec in the racecar see's 10,000 everypass. maybe higher if we had the proper cam selection.

91civicDXdude

83mm homemade b16b

turbotime

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Dturbocivic &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had my ls/vtec up in the 12k range a few times..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

holy frijoles!

boostfeen

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueShadow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Here is what I was thinking:

-keep current SC61 0.70ar cold/0.63ar hot
-keep current B18C head which already has SuperTech 0.5mm OS valves, Ti retainers, valvesprings, and Portflow headwork
-swap GSR cams for aftermarket cams good for up to 10K ish RPMs
-get a lightweight b16a crankshaft from that vendor on H-T (TLC motorsports?)
-swap out my Manley rods (do I get B16a rods or b16b rods? or are they the same?)
-swap out 9.0:1 CP pistons for some that'll give me a CR of 9.5:1 or 10.0:1
-swap out 12lb Action flywheel for 9 lb flywheel
-swap out stock GSR crank pulley for Fluidampr street pulley
-swap out Skunk2 IM for Victor-X IM
-swap out Revhard turbo manifold for SpoolinPerf EL manifold

Modified by BlueShadow at 5:13 PM 11/26/2005</TD></TR></TABLE>
0- go with the sleeved block
1-keep the built gsr head
2-keep the turbo
3-swap the gsr cams for CTR cams
4-use a LS crank
5-go with Pauter Rods and CP pistons 10.0:1
6-go with 9lb. exedy flywheel and RPS clutch
7-go with a ATI damper instead of the Fluidampr
8-use the victor x intake mani with a 70mm throttle body(bbk)
9-if your gonna use a cast manifold go with a INLINEPRO, but your better off
using a equal length tubular manifold.ex-FullRace,LovFab,OneFab,etc.
10-make sure you got plenty of fuel-RC Engineering 1000cc/min. injectors
STR fuel Rail,AEROMOTIVE regulator, 255lph Walbro In-tank
11-use MSD ignition box with 2-step, external coil, msd 8.5mm wires
12-MOST IMPORTANT- good managment,ex.-HONDATA,NEPTUNE,AEM

.....with this setup youll be able to make well over 500hp. and spin the motor to
9500 rpm with no problem.

earl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BlueShadow &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

can you give me a few examples of people who have run their LS cranked GSRs up to 10K RPM's?</TD></TR></TABLE>There is a saying that "there is no replacement for displacement."
In our CRX, we currently have a ls crank in our B block. We had small injectors in the engine and could only boost 22lbs. The car still ran a 9.83 et. The rev limiter was set at 9500 on the first pass (9.93) and we were on the rev limiter thru the pass. Set the limiter to 10,000rpms on the second (9.83) pass and we were bouncing off the limiter at 10K. It seemed to want more.
I am pretty much convinced that rod ratios are highly over-rated when making a decision on an engine combination.

rhd

too "good" of a r/s and you have to worry about detonation

Suprdave

A Long Rod Motor is gong to rev slower, not faster.

Short Rod Motors have a quicker response.

Don't waste your money, basically...It's going to be a dog.

superdupervtec

R/S ratio is not the most important thing to be looking for in a race motor, it should be ignored and you should go for the most displacement possible.


But if this is a street car and you want reliability, you need a decent r/s ratio becasue without it you will be really side loading the pistons and wearing the rings.

Also the higher you rev the more stress it puts on the bottom end.

So you have to decide where you want to go, reliability or power.

Your best bet is a Gsr Crank, right in the middle, besides if this is pump gas and the car is a daily driver with some weight to it you won't be benifiting from spooling the engine to 10, 000 rpm. there are good cams that will make power from 1500-9000 and that is a perfect range. It will still give you decent low end and great top end.

There is also a stroker crank for a b16 from eagle that is not quite as much stroke as the Gsr but much more the a b16, therefore is you have money to blow you can go with that and get a little less displacement then the gsr crank but yeild a better r/s ratio.

But the down side to this is nothing beats the forging process of a oem honda crank.


Modified by superdupervtec at 8:00 PM 11/27/2005

dome

iTrader: (1)

get a ls crank you will like it. im looking for one right now. so if anyone has one that is good and never has spun a bearing pm me. i spin my ls crank in a gsr block to 9800.

rhd

i still prefer a mid 1.5 r/s for pump gas

tokesGTR

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by rhd &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i still prefer a mid 1.5 r/s for pump gas</TD></TR></TABLE>

RLZ did 515 WHP with an 84mm B16 on pump gas, so I'd say that 1.75:1 isn't hurting them much/any.