Kyoto now

I was reading through the Boosted LS thread and happend to notice that a lot of guys are constructing thier own custom turbo kits, all of which represent consistent numbers that are close to each other. My question is how much different is a custom set-up over a mass-produced one, like Turbonetic's? What advantages/ disadvantages are there over building my own set-up as oposed to buying a whole kit off the shelf. I have a million more questions (all pertaining specifically to the turbocharging of the LS motor) I want to ask but this is a good starting point. I appreciate all the help Honda-Tech

Dunc

Disadvantages: More difficult if you aren't real sure what you need/want. But it's easily overcome with research.

Advantages: You get the exact parts you want. Sometimes you can save money. You can get better quality parts overall.

SoSlo

you will spend less putting together your own kit. you can buy used and save huge$$ if you are in cali then the kits are the way to go due to smog and ref. just do a search and start reading. there is muct to be learned on this site

Kyoto now

true, thanks for the help.

Speed Infliction

i put together my own kit and was able to get pistons rods, headstuds, gauges, exhaust, radiator, fans, gaskets, and a bunch more stuff for a little over what the cost of a kit would be. I would not do it any other way if I had to do it all over again. also, i have all the parts that i want. I bought my ramhorn, dp, dt from turbo Jesse and was very pleased.

Ruben19

more HP and power

blackeg

bump for turbo jesse .


ive put together 3 kits for myself over the years and i learned so much by researching and putting it together..

i agree with it. this allows you to buy some used stuff in there, freeing up money to either save, or spend on better new stuff.

Kyoto now

Sounds good so far. I wont be able to piece together my kit for at least another 4-5 months, but until then I would like to gather as much help, direction, and insight as you guys could possibly give me, I have absolutley no experience with turbos at all but I am currently reading Maximum Boost. My vehicle is a 95 integra GS, I would like to make around 240whp on a relativley otherwise stock motor.

What problems have any of you LS-t guys ran into while turboing your car?
I know it's hard to say, but roughly what would it take to make around 240 whp on an LS?
Again, I really appreciate the help and knowledge you guys are giving me, thanks!!

Speed Infliction

i won't take much to get 240whp.

Kyoto now

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Speed Infliction &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i won't take much to get 240whp.</TD></TR></TABLE>

OK, nice to know. Generally, what parts would it take.....Better question is: What would YOU do to get around 240, safe, reliable,daily driven whp? Also, I heard a stock MAP sensor can work with 10psi of boost, what if you go past that? What is a 3-Bar MAP sensor?

I really don't want to have to tear into the motor, so is what I'm looking for even realistic with a stock LS? I'm open to all Ideas and suggestions, thanks everyone.

snaileg

get 450 injectors a good manifold if you want more power on less boost get a equal length but if you just want a manifold then log and get a good turbo like a t3/to4e which is a very good rounded turbo good spool and power and 3" downpipe of course but if you do go with a equal length manifold 240+ is very easy on 10psi with a good tune and very reliable also

blackeg

240whp is like dead on average for a safe tune and about 10 psi on a small to mid sized t3t4. i made 238 on 10 psi wiht a 57 trim t3t4.

you can switch map sensors w/o tearing into the motor, just make sure you adjust for it in the ecu programming.

450s will do the trick up to like 275 hp or probably around 12-14 psi depending, but 550s will give you a little extra room for safety. build your setup to be able to handle a little more than you initially plan on throwing at it, because your gonna want more in the future, and its better to have a little extra fuel than not have enough

Kyoto now

I actually just read the section on manifolds in Maximum Boost. It seemed as though the log style manifold is kinda looked down upon because it collects extra hot spots due to overlapping heat pulses. The most recommended is the equal length runner tubular style manifold.

Who makes a B-series manifold like this for my Integra? Is it worth having?
Why is the T3/04 so highly recomended? How long does it take to spool?
Why is 10psi the amount of boost most people are recomending?
Are 450cc injectors DSM? How do mitsubishi injectors work on a Honda engine?
Will Hondata S200B or an S300 unit satisfy all my tuning needs? I think engine management is the key to longevity and power here, is this correct?
AGAIN, THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!!!

Kyoto now

anyone out there?

nWilk666

full race egual length mani ftw

Kyoto now

I read that cast iron is best suited for street, I like the inline pro manifold. Anyone use this one?



Modified by DA9 Purist at 5:22 PM 12/12/2006

drumking15

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DA9 Purist &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I actually just read the section on manifolds in Maximum Boost. It seemed as though the log style manifold is kinda looked down upon because it collects extra hot spots due to overlapping heat pulses. The most recommended is the equal length runner tubular style manifold.

1-Who makes a B-series manifold like this for my Integra? Is it worth having?
2-Why is the T3/04 so highly recomended? How long does it take to spool?
3-Why is 10psi the amount of boost most people are recomending?
4-Are 450cc injectors DSM? How do mitsubishi injectors work on a Honda engine?
5-Will Hondata S200B or an S300 unit satisfy all my tuning needs? I think engine management is the key to longevity and power here, is this correct?
AGAIN, THANKS FOR ALL THE HELP!!! </TD></TR></TABLE>

1) a whole bunch of people...check out the sponsors section and your bound to find at least 3 decent fab guys...they are nice and do hold their value somewhat....

2)t3/t4 is a type of turbo t3 exh/t4 compressor hence the t3/t4....youll find variotions of this due to bearings of the turbo (aka ball bearing)...and then youll find trims...50,54,57,60 which have subsequent turbo compressor maps that can be matched to applications...so really a t3/t4 combo could work for any motor depending on your goals...its the a/r of the exh & compressor housings, inducer & exducer wheel sizes that make all the difference...

3)10psi isnt the max on the stock map sensor but its close...10.5 on most cars and you start to get bad values...but this can be fixed by a decent tuner riching up the maps in the upper boost columns to compesate for the controlled overboost to about 11-12psi max....after that you have to step up to a aftermarket map sensor like a 3bar that can read upto 28psi...you just have to change this in your tuning software so the voltage output corresponds to the map reading on your ecu(tuned by software)

4) 450's are commonly dsm's...how they work...like any other injectors...450cc is the size..and they are the same dimensions as a honda injector so as a cheap alternative to buyin aftermarket injectors...most use dsms found at junkyard etc...only mod you have to do is bore out the injector orings for the intake mani...easy to do and plenty of writups around

5) youve learned alot...tuning is key...the software you choose to get there is only as good as the tuner tuning it...like many will say find a tuner and ask them what they like....for a basic setup like yours...considering youd never touch the tune etc...a s200 would be fine...or even run crome or neptune as cheaper alternatives...if youd ever want to change the tune...datalog etc...neptune rtp is the way... real time programming & onboard dataloggin capabilities make it awesome...along w/ great customer support

drumking15

any to comment on the exh mani's

eq lengths maximize pulse enegry and therfor make more power at the same boost level as log mani would...flow is everything...and flow doesnt like walls or restrictions

Kyoto now

Thanks, I appreciate the help. If anyone wants to add anything like tips, and things to make sure of when turboing and preping feel free. The more info the better

Kyoto now

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SoSlo &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">you will spend less putting together your own kit. you can buy used and save huge$$ if you are in cali then the kits are the way to go due to smog and ref. just do a search and start reading. there is muct to be learned on this site</TD></TR></TABLE>

I actually did the math and it seems like it might cost a little more to put a kit together myself, Here is what I came up with:
$850, T3/04 Turbo (not sure of specs, just priced it off inline pro)
$600, Inline Pro SS cast manifold
$300, Turbosmart 38 mm Waste Gate
$300, SS Down pipe
$230, BOV
$450, intake charge piping
$120, oil feed/ return lines
$400+-, (4) RC 440 cc injectors
$450, FMIC
$500, Hondata
...... So far this adds up to $4200 vs. the avg. kit price of $3500.

Am I missing anything? Do these prices seem reasonable? I'm not big on buying used car parts either, unless I know history.


Modified by DA9 Purist at 9:07 AM 12/15/2006

WickedHonda00

I would never spend that much on a BOV. There's nothing special about them at all, just a valve that relieves pressure when accumulated beyond a certain point. Something like 50-100 bucks is more reasonable for a BOV I think. I would also recommend a Tial 38mm wastegate--&gt; They've simply proved their superiorness over the others. There are many, many other FMIC kits that will be much cheaper than 700-1000 bucks, for that price I would get a Full-Race setup. Since your looking for around 250whp, I wouldn't worry about having a top notch intercooler, something that flows about 600CFM ought to be enough for 400hp or 350whp. I would also look into lovefab manifolds..they are equally competitive to FullRace and are MUCH cheaper. Something like $600-$650 for A/C manifolds. And trust me..they will totally whip the Inline Pro Log Mani's. Use DSM injectors, have someone do the o-ring mod for you, and save lots of money.

http://www.Treadstoneperformance.com offers intercooler kits for $299, which includes intercooler, piping, and BOV flange already welded to accept Turbonetics or Greddy BOV styles.

If I were to re-estimate your costs for the necessary but cheaper parts, I would subtract $600 for the FMIC kit, add $50 for the manifold, subtract $100 for the BOV, subtract $40 for the Oil Kit, and subtract $300 for the injectors and rather pick them up at a local yard for little to nothing and do the mod for them. Total -$1040 + $50 = $990??? That brings your total cost down to about $3200...and that's being generous.

So you get a T3/T4 turbo
Love Fab Mani
DSM injectors
Tial Wastegate
Cheap BOV
600CFM FMIC
Hondata
Oil Kit
Downpipe

Wow, practically everything except tuning. Add $250 for that (give or take--street tune) and your COMPLETELY done for the same price as a pre-packaged kit.

jarvis199

heres my view on this, what id buy if i wanted 240whp out of a b16:

-t3/t04e 57 trim .63 hot side with stage 3 wheel (doesnt matter if its bb) $650
-ebay fmic wiht 2.5" outlets $175
-inline pro manifold from tuner toys $500
-dsm 450cc injectors $50
-chipped ecu $170
-chip burner $90
-crome $free
-bends for dp and intercooler piping $135
-coupings, tbolts, gaskets $150
-tial 38mm wastegate $210
-knockoff tial 50mm bov from ebay (works great) $80
-atp turbo oil lines $85
-arp headstuds $110
-welder from walmart $250

i think thats it??? i leave anything out???

sauceja

Actually you can get a FTW manifold, dt, dp for 850.00 shipped
There are some decent FMIC with piping around for like 300.00
gaskets should come with your items and the t-bolts couplers should come with the fmic.

crome pro 150.00
ostrich 175.00
Burn1 85.00

moates.net
xenocron.com
tunewithcrome.com
pgmfi.org
homemadeturbo.com

Just some off the top of my head.

Top Ramen

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by DA9 Purist &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I actually just read the section on manifolds in Maximum Boost. It seemed as though the log style manifold is kinda looked down upon because it collects extra hot spots due to overlapping heat pulses. The most recommended is the equal length runner tubular style manifold. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Yes and no. While the log-style manis don't get a love of love here, they do have some advantages. They are really not a bad way to go for a street car. They make decent power, spool faster, tend to cost less and are easier to make AC compatible. If you are not looking for big numbers (and is sounds like you aren't) then there is nothing wrong with a log-style mani.

I am currently building a daily driver hatch with the Inline Pro SS cast mani. I really only want about 400 whp out of this motor, so it is a great way to go for this project. If I wanted big numbers (like for a car that would get raced occasionally), I would lose the AC and go with an equal-length ramhorn style. But, its overkill for this situation.

The single most important thing to get right is engine management. The rest is just gravy.

Best of luck with your project.

Kyoto now

thanks man, I appreciate it. Here's some more questions for anyone who feels like answering them:

What would going from 120 HP at the wheels to 240 feel like?
Am I going to have to upgrade the entire fuel system?
What components in the fuel system need to be addressed?
Is the stock ignition system going to be suffient?
Will I REALLY benefit from a BB turbo, or is it not necessary for my application? Is it worth the extra $$$$?