89crxhf

i am thinking about turboing my 89 crx with the b16 swap and was wondering how much boost i can safely run on the stock motor thanks for you help

Bulldogg83

A search would help, but to be honest it comes down to what you are going to be tuning with. With a safe tune you can run 10-12lbs and make good power.

mrx

therefor i have a totaly different, but not uniterested question.

i run a totaly stock B16A1 only with reduced compression ratio (8:1) with 17psi for about 40.000km daily driving. all things like engine management, bigger injectors and the complete other **** needed to run such a engine were also there but for the internals the engine was stock.

i had no dyno sheet of this car but it makes some decent hp for sure.
the Turbo was a T3/T4 with unknown trim.

but thats not the question... the question is, if it is possible to push a stock b16 only with lower cr to 17psi over a longer period without problems, is it possible to run a stock b16 WITH stock compression ratio AND GOOD TUNING to lets say 14-16psi IF the tuner can avoid detonations? (i.e. by using alcohol, race gas or some other tricks)

i know that torq kills an engine not boost, but i think even with a 10.2:1 CR the same engine wouldn't make sooo much more power then the one with the 8:1 CR?

this is NOT a high vs. los CR thread, it is only a question if a good tuned stock b16 can handle 14-16psi if it is possible to avoid detonation and the other enginge killing **** ;-)

Look's what's comming...
Malte.

Bulldogg83

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrx &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">therefor i have a totaly different, but not uniterested question.

i run a totaly stock B16A1 only with reduced compression ratio (8:1) with 17psi for about 40.000km daily driving. all things like engine management, bigger injectors and the complete other **** needed to run such a engine were also there but for the internals the engine was stock.

i had no dyno sheet of this car but it makes some decent hp for sure.
the Turbo was a T3/T4 with unknown trim.

but thats not the question... the question is, if it is possible to push a stock b16 only with lower cr to 17psi over a longer period without problems, is it possible to run a stock b16 WITH stock compression ratio AND GOOD TUNING to lets say 14-16psi IF the tuner can avoid detonations? (i.e. by using alcohol, race gas or some other tricks)

i know that torq kills an engine not boost, but i think even with a 10.2:1 CR the same engine wouldn't make sooo much more power then the one with the 8:1 CR?

this is NOT a high vs. los CR thread, it is only a question if a good tuned stock b16 can handle 14-16psi if it is possible to avoid detonation and the other enginge killing **** ;-)

Look's what's comming...
Malte.</TD></TR></TABLE>

To answer all of your questions....yes with a good tune the B16 can handle it.

primeredbeast

my crx lasted for about 4 months untuned if it was tuned i feel it would have lasted a lot longer i was running 7lbs on a 57trim t3/t4 also make sure you don't overrev get some kind of ignition cut for your motor

b16ahybrid

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 89crxhf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i am thinking about turboing my 89 crx with the b16 swap and was wondering how much boost i can safely run on the stock motor thanks for you help</TD></TR></TABLE>

Your engine can safely handle about 300whp.
How much boost that is???? Who knows, it depends on factors such as turbo size, and tuning.
Boost is not the limiting factor of your engine, actual power being made and and the quality of your tuning will limit the life of your motor.
With that said, do a search I know there are a few people running large turbo's and making out their engine with about 10psi, I on the otherhand am running 13psi with a smaller t3t4 turbo and making about 275whp.

slowsi00

stock b16 sleeves dont like untuned 28psi.

but it pulld like a ****

ITR981002

They make SS wastegate lines now

Wouldn't that have come in handy!

Tactic$

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by slowsi00 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stock b16 sleeves dont like untuned 28psi.

but it pulld like a **** </TD></TR></TABLE>

yeah... i would think not !!

calgone47

I have been running 10psi daily on my b16 crx for the past 4 and a half months. The b16 is completely stock including head gasket. I've been thinking about turning it up a little to see how she does.

9341civic

how much boost can a crv-vtec motor with 11.5:1 cr hold?

fully built motor!

192whp 145 tq on mustang dyno NA!

looking for 450+? with t3/t4 turbo from drag 57trim

LoSt is BlaCk

it's not about the boost number it's hp numbers, psi does not have the same affect from all turbos...

kleefton

psi HAS to do something with it.

You're increasing cylinder pressures with higher boost, you're more likely to knock if you have bad gas.

mrx

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kleefton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">psi HAS to do something with it.

You're increasing cylinder pressures with higher boost, you're more likely to knock if you have bad gas. </TD></TR></TABLE>

yes, but if you increase 10psi of boost for example the cyliner pressure would increase the same... but the pressure during a explosion cycle is far far more higher then this 10psi... so if you don't get knocking the psi level isn't a problem...

if you get knocking, then you can kill ANY enging with 1psi of boost.

MIKES

Boost has nothing to do with reliability. Tunning does. I run a SC61 on my Teg with a bonestock B16A motor with ARP head studs and stock GSR cams. I have never dynoed the motor but I have raced low 12 sec cars and walked away from them. I run 15psi on this setup daily. I have beat the **** outta this motor purposely. I wanted to see how far I could push the limits of this motor on a excellent tune. I raced this thing amost every single night in the summertime trying to see where it stands against other cars that have already been to the track( at least 50 hard passes). I run 94 octane Sunoco pump gas. The motor purrs like a kitten and doesn't burn a drop of oil. Its been in the car since the begining of summer ( has to be making inbetween 340 to 360whp on pump gas on a conservative tune). I would run more boost but I only have a 2 bar map sensor. Right now its in winter mode with stock injectors and no boosting (talk about being under control). It was tuned on the street with a Innovative wide band (Zydne Gold ecu for engine management). i run 750cc injectors. Movement is what cracks cylinders and grenaids bottomends along with crappy tunning. Stock sleeves are strong to handle well over 400+whp. And if your EGT's are kept in order you can't hurt a piston with heat and detonation. That to me is why boost is irrelivent. Supply lots of fuel, good tunning and a unrestrictive exhaust with a good engine management system along with basic common sense and you will be ok. Alot of people seem to think that just because I am boosting means my cylinder pressure is more then a high compression N/A motor (NOT TRUE). The cylinder pressure on some N/A motors you see on the street will surprise the hell outta you. Thats why they are so responsive and raspy. Just my 2 cents.

beerbongskickass

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kleefton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">psi HAS to do something with it.

You're increasing cylinder pressures with higher boost, you're more likely to knock if you have bad gas.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

PSI has nothing to do with it.

http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=1261

LoSt is BlaCk

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

PSI has nothing to do with it.

http://www.evans-tuning.com/viewtopic.php?t=1261</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks beerbongkickass, you always save the day

kleefton

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by MIKES &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Boost has nothing to do with reliability. Tunning does. I run a SC61 on my Teg with a bonestock B16A motor with ARP head studs and stock GSR cams. I have never dynoed the motor but I have raced low 12 sec cars and walked away from them. I run 15psi on this setup daily. I have beat the **** outta this motor purposely. I wanted to see how far I could push the limits of this motor on a excellent tune. I raced this thing amost every single night in the summertime trying to see where it stands against other cars that have already been to the track( at least 50 hard passes). I run 94 octane Sunoco pump gas. The motor purrs like a kitten and doesn't burn a drop of oil. Its been in the car since the begining of summer ( has to be making inbetween 340 to 360whp on pump gas on a conservative tune). I would run more boost but I only have a 2 bar map sensor. Right now its in winter mode with stock injectors and no boosting (talk about being under control). It was tuned on the street with a Innovative wide band (Zydne Gold ecu for engine management). i run 750cc injectors. Movement is what cracks cylinders and grenaids bottomends along with crappy tunning. Stock sleeves are strong to handle well over 400+whp. And if your EGT's are kept in order you can't hurt a piston with heat and detonation. That to me is why boost is irrelivent. Supply lots of fuel, good tunning and a unrestrictive exhaust with a good engine management system along with basic common sense and you will be ok. Alot of people seem to think that just because I am boosting means my cylinder pressure is more then a high compression N/A motor (NOT TRUE). The cylinder pressure on some N/A motors you see on the street will surprise the hell outta you. Thats why they are so responsive and raspy. Just my 2 cents.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Good.

Now let me give you my example. I achieve 300whp with 14psi on pump gas. My turbo is nowhere near its peak efficiency range (SC50 .63 a/r). Now, my motor has pistons and rods, so it's ok to see 400whp with the right tuning, isn't it? Ok.

Now how safe do you think it would be to INCREASE boost levels to reach that 400whp level. It would probably take 24psi to do it. Would I be able to run this on pump gas? No. I'd need race gas. Any time you have to use race gas, imo reliability has to be a concern, regardless on how well the engine was tuned.


Now, say I had a super efficient turbo that would make that 400whp at only 14 psi on pump gas. Which do you think would be safer? 400whp at 14psi or 400whp at 24psi? Do I even need to answer these questions for you?

Anyway, that's why imo how much boost you run is important. The higher boost you run, the more you need that high octane gas to keep you from detonating. So how can you say it has nothing to do with how much boost?

On a stock b16 I wouldn't go over 14psi and roughly 300whp, which is what most t3t4s would yield on it. However, some more efficient setups can exceed that power with a lot less boost.

mrx

I think both of the engines can handle the power without to break if they are well tuned.
what you want to say is: that if i run much boost i must run high octane to prevent detonations... thats correct... but thats not of the high boost alon... compression ratio and air temperature are also important...

i think high boost numbers are a problem because they produce more heated intake temp. and therefor ligher detonation... if you use a water injection i.e. you can drop the intake temp and lower the chance of detonation...

so detonation is the problem, not the psi...

Bye
Malte.

Tchleung

I runa bone stock B16 with ARP head studs at 10.5PSI with an SC34. Doesn't burn oil or making any funny noises and I bounce off rev limtier everyday at 8600RPM(yes 8600, not 8200 ) jsut cause the tires rip loose at high revs. I even ran it at 12psi for a night until it creeped a tiyn past 12 and threw me into limp mode heh :D No major blowby or anything. oil level always the same

MIKES

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by kleefton &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Good.

Now let me give you my example. I achieve 300whp with 14psi on pump gas. My turbo is nowhere near its peak efficiency range (SC50 .63 a/r). Now, my motor has pistons and rods, so it's ok to see 400whp with the right tuning, isn't it? Ok.

Now how safe do you think it would be to INCREASE boost levels to reach that 400whp level. It would probably take 24psi to do it. Would I be able to run this on pump gas? No. I'd need race gas. Any time you have to use race gas, imo reliability has to be a concern, regardless on how well the engine was tuned.


Now, say I had a super efficient turbo that would make that 400whp at only 14 psi on pump gas. Which do you think would be safer? 400whp at 14psi or 400whp at 24psi? Do I even need to answer these questions for you?

Anyway, that's why imo how much boost you run is important. The higher boost you run, the more you need that high octane gas to keep you from detonating. So how can you say it has nothing to do with how much boost?

On a stock b16 I wouldn't go over 14psi and roughly 300whp, which is what most t3t4s would yield on it. However, some more efficient setups can exceed that power with a lot less boost. </TD></TR></TABLE>

You have stemmed away from the orginal question and answered your very own questions about a stock B16A motor. The orginal question is, how much boost can a stock b16 handle? You have not talked about whether or not the pistons & sleeves can handle the abuse, you have only mentioned why race fuel is introduced into the mix as your boost levels increases which have nothing to do with the strength of stock block internals. High compression N/A motors at the track run race fuel too on built motors so I don't understand your point? High octane just cools things down in the combustion chamber to mix better with the heat generated by a higher compression ratio. thats why I mentioned it has more to do with tunning and proper EGTS so melting (heat) doesn't occur. I think you need to establish the differences between strength and fuel. There is only so much you can do with pump gas, which has nothing to do with strength of a engine and race fuel. Forged internals are stronger and better no doubt, but to the average guy making 250 to 350whp on pump gas its not a nessesity. Forged internals just means it can take alot more heat before it breaks aswell.

MIKES

I can also run a Razor's progressive alcohol to the car with 91 to 94 octane pump gas and run times and numbers people are doing with race fuel. I know a guy with a 3550 pound car running bottom 10's with this very same system and costs sqwat to put alcohol is the resivoir. So fuel is fuel and strength is another story all by itself. People tend to put the two together when talking about what a motor can safely handle. We are not talking about high octane vs low octane. We are talking about strength.

slowsi00

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ITR981002 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They make SS wastegate lines now

Wouldn't that have come in handy!</TD></TR></TABLE>

yes that would have been nice.

eRACING

will 7.25 psi work without worries on a stock internally b16a with ITR head? Stock ECU, etc... many say not to boost more than 6psi on a factory motor without tuning it... Eventually it'll be tuned, though I'd like to get an idea if the block will handle the 7psi with a Rev Hard 2C kit (t3/o4e a/r .60)

jamartin0519

Someone needs to make a sticky about how much a stock b-series blocks can handle. i.e.

B16A2
Sleeves ~400whp
Stock block internals ~300whp

B18......

I havent been here long but Ive seen countless threads on this subject.