How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's*
01-05-2005, 06:27 AM
#1
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How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's*
Just wondering how high you guys, particularly those with the JG Victor X IM are revving to? All my suspicions were confirmed on the dyno where you see the power just climb and climb, particularly hard after 7k rpm (so it's not in my head 
). As it is right now I'm stopping the fun with an 8500rpm limiter (8900 indicated) since im on the stock valvetrain, but if you look at the dyno sheet you see that the power doesn't taper off a bit. So assuming I go with a set of springs and retainers, how high would *you* rev your B18C1 to?
Keep in mind this is a balanced bottom end, 81.5mm with JE's swinging on Eagles so it'll hold decent power, but the stresses associated with 9k rpm plus are what scare me
Any suggestions?
). As it is right now I'm stopping the fun with an 8500rpm limiter (8900 indicated) since im on the stock valvetrain, but if you look at the dyno sheet you see that the power doesn't taper off a bit. So assuming I go with a set of springs and retainers, how high would *you* rev your B18C1 to?Keep in mind this is a balanced bottom end, 81.5mm with JE's swinging on Eagles so it'll hold decent power, but the stresses associated with 9k rpm plus are what scare me
Any suggestions?
01-05-2005, 06:34 AM
#2
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (VTC_resurected_CiViC)
why are you worried about the revs? i revved my eagles past 9k every time i got in it
01-05-2005, 06:34 AM
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (VTC_resurected_CiViC)
on a factory tach it indicates 8900, or an aftermarket one?
I have a b16a, but completly stock 97 gsr head with a venom intake manifold (same concept as yours, top end power) and im revving to 8500 also. . I think max power was 8300. .
I have a b16a, but completly stock 97 gsr head with a venom intake manifold (same concept as yours, top end power) and im revving to 8500 also. . I think max power was 8300. .
01-05-2005, 06:40 AM
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (itr206)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">why are you worried about the revs? i revved my eagles past 9k every time i got in it </TD></TR></TABLE>
He is worried about stock valvetrain and floating valves is my guess. I would be too. Put some springs in it.
He is worried about stock valvetrain and floating valves is my guess. I would be too. Put some springs in it.
01-05-2005, 06:41 AM
#5
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (VTC_resurected_CiViC)
I have my fuel cut set at 9400 rpm on a completely built B18c1 head. I could rev alot higher 10-11k but the limiting factor for me isn't my JG IM but the size of my turbo t03/04 .60 a/r compressor .63 a/r turbine. My turbo starts getting out of breath at 8.5 k so their is really no reason to rev it any higher because the torque starts dropping.
I personally like a built head because of the added insurance---
1) higher tension dual valve springs help eliminate valve float
2) If I accidentally mis-a-gear and rev to 11k then all is good.
I personally like a built head because of the added insurance---
1) higher tension dual valve springs help eliminate valve float
2) If I accidentally mis-a-gear and rev to 11k then all is good.
01-05-2005, 06:50 AM
#6
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (dasher)
my bad, i thought he was referring to the eagles. I did mine on a stock head, but GSR head is diff. I would do a little headwork to be safe though
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01-05-2005, 07:05 AM
#8
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (itr206)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by itr206 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my bad, i thought he was referring to the eagles. I did mine on a stock head, but GSR head is diff. I would do a little headwork to be safe though</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well actually yea I was moreso concerned with the bottom end than anything. Assuming I went ahead and got some Skank2 springs and retainers, would there be cause for concern spinning the bottom to 9k+?
I really need to post the graph so you guys can understand where I'm comming from. The power at 8.5k is ridiculous and I mean it shows absolutley no sign of retreat, I figured the IM and SC61 are more tailored to top end but dayum! I even checked for boost spiking but after some immdeiate spike when the boost rolls on around 5.5-6k (shot up tp 19-20psi), it settle down and the peak numbers were at a true 14-15psi. Has anybody esle made good power with stock GSR cams this high? Any other issues I should be looking out for at this rpm?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wouldn't go any higher on stock sleeves..</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ahh yes that's another point you just reminded me of, this is on stock sleeves! I can imagine that kind of stress placed on the sleeve walls at 9k+ are pretty high, coupled with the cyl. pressure and power.. well I guess you see where I'm going with this.
Well actually yea I was moreso concerned with the bottom end than anything. Assuming I went ahead and got some Skank2 springs and retainers, would there be cause for concern spinning the bottom to 9k+?
I really need to post the graph so you guys can understand where I'm comming from. The power at 8.5k is ridiculous and I mean it shows absolutley no sign of retreat, I figured the IM and SC61 are more tailored to top end but dayum! I even checked for boost spiking but after some immdeiate spike when the boost rolls on around 5.5-6k (shot up tp 19-20psi), it settle down and the peak numbers were at a true 14-15psi. Has anybody esle made good power with stock GSR cams this high? Any other issues I should be looking out for at this rpm?
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Mpir3 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I wouldn't go any higher on stock sleeves..</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ahh yes that's another point you just reminded me of, this is on stock sleeves! I can imagine that kind of stress placed on the sleeve walls at 9k+ are pretty high, coupled with the cyl. pressure and power.. well I guess you see where I'm going with this.
01-05-2005, 07:22 AM
#9
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (VTC_resurected_CiViC)
whats kind of power are you already putting down with the sc61 at 8500? Thats got to be getting dangerous for stock sleeves....
01-05-2005, 07:23 AM
#10
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (adictionbass)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by adictionbass »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">whats kind of power are you already putting down with the sc61 at 8500? Thats got to be getting dangerous for stock sleeves....</TD></TR></TABLE>
402whp @ ~1bar/14-15psi
402whp @ ~1bar/14-15psi
01-05-2005, 07:24 AM
#11
Member
Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (VTC_resurected_CiViC)
As far as the bottom end is concerned ---
1) Stock sleeves --- I have reved my bottom end to 9.4k rpm many times before on stock gsr sleeves--- I typically only rev to 8.5k because of the sideloading forces however.
2) Typically the Gsr crank is perfectly balanced from factory --- rev it to 10-11 no problems. Micropolish it and you are done.
3) You want to make sure the engine was built right --- no plastiguage or generic bearings... we are talking about using a good set of micrometers, dial bore gauge and make sure you use a stretch gauge tool and NOT a torque wrench when tightening the rod bolts. Balance your bottom end properly.
4) A lightened crank-pulley is a big no-no for high rpm's
1) Stock sleeves --- I have reved my bottom end to 9.4k rpm many times before on stock gsr sleeves--- I typically only rev to 8.5k because of the sideloading forces however.
2) Typically the Gsr crank is perfectly balanced from factory --- rev it to 10-11 no problems. Micropolish it and you are done.
3) You want to make sure the engine was built right --- no plastiguage or generic bearings... we are talking about using a good set of micrometers, dial bore gauge and make sure you use a stretch gauge tool and NOT a torque wrench when tightening the rod bolts. Balance your bottom end properly.
4) A lightened crank-pulley is a big no-no for high rpm's
01-05-2005, 07:25 AM
#12
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (VTC_resurected_CiViC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTC_resurected_CiViC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
402whp @ ~1bar/14-15psi</TD></TR></TABLE>
93 octane? I wouldn't want to go over 420whp on stock sleeves with 93 octane.
402whp @ ~1bar/14-15psi</TD></TR></TABLE>
93 octane? I wouldn't want to go over 420whp on stock sleeves with 93 octane.
01-05-2005, 07:30 AM
#13
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (dasher)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">As far as the bottom end is concerned ---
1) Stock sleeves --- I have reved my bottom end to 9.4k rpm many times before on stock gsr sleeves--- I only rev to 8.5k because of the sideloading forces however.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Right.. that's my concern.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
2) Typically the Gsr crank is perfectly balanced from factory --- rev it to 10-11 no problems. Micropolish it and you are done.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Had the machinst do this for me
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
3) You want to make sure the engine was built right --- no plastiguage or generic bearings... we are talking about using a good set of micrometers, dial bore gauge and make sure you use a stretch gauge tool and NOT a torque wrench when tightening the rod bolts. Balance your bottom end properly.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well I wasn't there when he built it, but I can tell you this thing is running on ACL's for one, the builder I'm 99.99999% sure went the plastigauge route, and the entire rotating assembly (slugs, rods, crank, flywheel, clutch plate, OEM crank pulley) were balanced before install.
The builder is good, seen a number of his motors running around Miami making good power and lasting (user discretion of course), but I know he doesn't take the rocket science approach to it either
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
4) A lightened crank-pulley is a big no-no for high rpm's
</TD></TR></TABLE>
OEM, I do have a balanced lightweihght flywheel though...
1) Stock sleeves --- I have reved my bottom end to 9.4k rpm many times before on stock gsr sleeves--- I only rev to 8.5k because of the sideloading forces however.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Right.. that's my concern.
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
2) Typically the Gsr crank is perfectly balanced from factory --- rev it to 10-11 no problems. Micropolish it and you are done.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Had the machinst do this for me
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
3) You want to make sure the engine was built right --- no plastiguage or generic bearings... we are talking about using a good set of micrometers, dial bore gauge and make sure you use a stretch gauge tool and NOT a torque wrench when tightening the rod bolts. Balance your bottom end properly.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well I wasn't there when he built it, but I can tell you this thing is running on ACL's for one, the builder I'm 99.99999% sure went the plastigauge route, and the entire rotating assembly (slugs, rods, crank, flywheel, clutch plate, OEM crank pulley) were balanced before install.
The builder is good, seen a number of his motors running around Miami making good power and lasting (user discretion of course), but I know he doesn't take the rocket science approach to it either
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
4) A lightened crank-pulley is a big no-no for high rpm's
</TD></TR></TABLE>
OEM, I do have a balanced lightweihght flywheel though...
01-05-2005, 07:31 AM
#14
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (dasher)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
93 octane? I wouldn't want to go over 420whp on stock sleeves with 93 octane.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep. I was shocked personally, not expecting more than 370whp +/- at that boost level, and I have zero intention of pushing anymore on pump, actually I pulled back on timing a tad just for the hell of it and dropped the boost for daily putt-putting.
93 octane? I wouldn't want to go over 420whp on stock sleeves with 93 octane.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Yep. I was shocked personally, not expecting more than 370whp +/- at that boost level, and I have zero intention of pushing anymore on pump, actually I pulled back on timing a tad just for the hell of it and dropped the boost for daily putt-putting.
01-05-2005, 07:37 AM
#15
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (VTC_resurected_CiViC)
if your practically at your power limit, why do you want to rev higher? Just building it for safety?
01-05-2005, 07:44 AM
#16
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (VTC_resurected_CiViC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTC_resurected_CiViC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
The builder is good, seen a number of his motors running around Miami making good power and lasting (user discretion of course), but I know he doesn't take the rocket science approach to it either
OEM, I do have a balanced lightweihght flywheel though... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah I run a 7 pound flyweel also ... my setup has been running strong and hard everyday for almost 1 year now also on built bottom end/ built head / stock sleeves.
Your setup seems good... Just worried about your rod-bolts being torqued down incorrectly with a torque wrench .... I tested the torque wrench method(using eagle supplied lubricant) back to back with a stretch guage tool several times and the torque wrench was not properly torqueing the bolts down right.
Remember that the rod bolts go through a tremendous amount of stress at High RPM's and that every single time one torques down the rod bolt it stretches it. If the engine is properly blueprinted then the bolt should be torqued down several times throwing off the usefullness of the pre-set viscousity in the supplied lubricant.
I would build your head, check with your engine builder to see if he used a stretch gauge, and rev it to 9.4k on race gas for the track only. Make sure you get a 3 angle valve job also whenyou throw some valves, springs, and retainers in their.
The builder is good, seen a number of his motors running around Miami making good power and lasting (user discretion of course), but I know he doesn't take the rocket science approach to it either
OEM, I do have a balanced lightweihght flywheel though... </TD></TR></TABLE>
Yeah I run a 7 pound flyweel also ... my setup has been running strong and hard everyday for almost 1 year now also on built bottom end/ built head / stock sleeves.
Your setup seems good... Just worried about your rod-bolts being torqued down incorrectly with a torque wrench .... I tested the torque wrench method(using eagle supplied lubricant) back to back with a stretch guage tool several times and the torque wrench was not properly torqueing the bolts down right.
Remember that the rod bolts go through a tremendous amount of stress at High RPM's and that every single time one torques down the rod bolt it stretches it. If the engine is properly blueprinted then the bolt should be torqued down several times throwing off the usefullness of the pre-set viscousity in the supplied lubricant.
I would build your head, check with your engine builder to see if he used a stretch gauge, and rev it to 9.4k on race gas for the track only. Make sure you get a 3 angle valve job also whenyou throw some valves, springs, and retainers in their.
01-05-2005, 07:47 AM
#17
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (adictionbass)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by adictionbass »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if your practically at your power limit, why do you want to rev higher? Just building it for safety?</TD></TR></TABLE>
safety and my guess is that he wants to make more power on race gas for the track which he can do.
safety and my guess is that he wants to make more power on race gas for the track which he can do.
01-05-2005, 07:47 AM
#18
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (adictionbass)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by adictionbass »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if your practically at your power limit, why do you want to rev higher? Just building it for safety?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Well that's more or less what I'm trying to establish, just how far within the limits (or over?) am I? I mean obviously this isn't a black-or-white question, I'm sure if we ask 10 builder/tuners I'll get 10 different answers, I'm just trying to gauge my standing 'as is'.
Like I said, the output isn't slowing down at all over 8k rpm, so I figured if I stretched it some more I can squeeze out some more power without having to up the boost, but at this point I think 8500rpm on stock bored sleeves are probably already on the edge based on some othe opinions and input.
Well that's more or less what I'm trying to establish, just how far within the limits (or over?) am I? I mean obviously this isn't a black-or-white question, I'm sure if we ask 10 builder/tuners I'll get 10 different answers, I'm just trying to gauge my standing 'as is'.
Like I said, the output isn't slowing down at all over 8k rpm, so I figured if I stretched it some more I can squeeze out some more power without having to up the boost, but at this point I think 8500rpm on stock bored sleeves are probably already on the edge based on some othe opinions and input.
01-05-2005, 07:51 AM
#19
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (VTC_resurected_CiViC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTC_resurected_CiViC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Like I said, the output isn't slowing down at all over 8k rpm, so I figured if I stretched it some more I can squeeze out some more power without having to up the boost, but at this point I think 8500rpm on stock bored sleeves are probably already on the edge based on some othe opinions and input.</TD></TR></TABLE>
stock bored sleeves? Bored-over how much? Mine are bored over +.020" to insure good ring seal with my pistons and have reved it to 9.4 k many times before.
Daily - driven hard! I trust my engine because I built it myself.
Like I said, the output isn't slowing down at all over 8k rpm, so I figured if I stretched it some more I can squeeze out some more power without having to up the boost, but at this point I think 8500rpm on stock bored sleeves are probably already on the edge based on some othe opinions and input.</TD></TR></TABLE>
stock bored sleeves? Bored-over how much? Mine are bored over +.020" to insure good ring seal with my pistons and have reved it to 9.4 k many times before.
Daily - driven hard! I trust my engine because I built it myself.
01-05-2005, 07:54 AM
#20
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Thread Starter
Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (dasher)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
stock bored sleeves? Bored-over how much? Mine are bored over +.020" to insure good ring seal with my pistons and have reved it to 9.4 k many times before.</TD></TR></TABLE>
81.5mm
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Daily - driven hard! I trust my engine because I built it myself.</TD></TR></TABLE>
..I can't say the same (the building) 
Thanks for the input though, I definatley apprieciate it
stock bored sleeves? Bored-over how much? Mine are bored over +.020" to insure good ring seal with my pistons and have reved it to 9.4 k many times before.</TD></TR></TABLE>
81.5mm
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Daily - driven hard! I trust my engine because I built it myself.</TD></TR></TABLE>
..I can't say the same (the building)
Thanks for the input though, I definatley apprieciate it
01-05-2005, 07:58 AM
#21
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Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (VTC_resurected_CiViC)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTC_resurected_CiViC »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Thanks for the input though, I definatley apprieciate it </TD></TR></TABLE>
no problem ... I am definetley regreting not sleeving my engine now however ---boost is addictive and I want to make more than 400 whp on 93 octane.
Thanks for the input though, I definatley apprieciate it
</TD></TR></TABLE>no problem ... I am definetley regreting not sleeving my engine now however ---boost is addictive and I want to make more than 400 whp on 93 octane.
01-05-2005, 08:02 AM
#22
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Thread Starter
Re: How high are you revving? *boosted B18C1's* (dasher)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dasher »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
no problem ... I am definetley regreting not sleeving my engine now however ---boost is addictive and I want to make more than 400 whp on 93 octane.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Haha! My thoughts exactly!! I know this setup is good for 500whp++ on more boost but after seeing a friend of mine split stock sleeves at 500whp, it's 450 on race gas and hi 300's on pump for me.. well, for now anyways.
*cough* 2-liter *cough*
no problem ... I am definetley regreting not sleeving my engine now however ---boost is addictive and I want to make more than 400 whp on 93 octane.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Haha! My thoughts exactly!! I know this setup is good for 500whp++ on more boost but after seeing a friend of mine split stock sleeves at 500whp, it's 450 on race gas and hi 300's on pump for me.. well, for now anyways.
*cough* 2-liter *cough*
01-05-2005, 09:16 AM
#23
Honda-Tech Member
I rev my 2.0L GSR to 9500...but then again I have a .58 T4 with a p-trim wheel. It pulls hard as all hell once vtec engages.
one thing to remember is that your torque curve, and thus the HP output is mainly going to be effected by what cams your running.
From my research CTR, and ITR cams have great high RPM power with a large turbo.
one thing to remember is that your torque curve, and thus the HP output is mainly going to be effected by what cams your running.
From my research CTR, and ITR cams have great high RPM power with a large turbo.
01-05-2005, 09:30 AM
#24
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Thread Starter
Re: (Bryson)
Yea well I'm gonna consider a set of cam gears soon, I'm hearing good things comming from a little tweaking of stock GSR cams with adjustable sprockets on the dyno.
