jspeedy

Well I've had my motor built for about 4 years and stated the whole turbo thing with a used sleeved block. I had it built by a shop in town and before having it built took the used block to a machine shop to have it checked out (line hone, mating surface,ect).

The machine shop said they could check it out for me but could not verify the sleeves. I asked what that meant and was told sometime the sleeves can sink/move downward. Being a super novice at that time I was satisfied with what was done and had the engine built.

Everything turned out great but on the stock radiator I blew a head gasket within a year. Took that opportunity to have the head built by port flow and put it back together and everything was fine so I thought. After about a year and less than 5K miles engine knock. I rebuilt the motor my self with the help of the original builder who has become a friend of mine and everything was good.. So I thought.

With just 300 miles on the rebuild I have water in the oil. I'm in the process of doing a leak down test to try and narrow it down but the one thing that the machine shop said keeps ringing in my head (I CAN'T VERIFY THE SLEEVES). I have my stock block and plan to have that sleeved if necessary. BTW the block is sleeved with the old golden eagle econon sleeves. Help.

SD_Lurker

iTrader: (4)

Take the head off and put a straight edge along the block and various angles. You will notice an uneven deck height. Do you know if you block is step decked? Meaning the sleeves stick out just a [pejorative] hair past the deck?

jspeedy

Can't rememeber if its stepped or not but as far as checking the mating surface it was done befor the intial build but was not done after the head was rebuit so I see you point.

0Golden Eagle

if its the old econo sleeves and its been redecked there's probably a problem with the sleeve. i always hated the econo sleeves and we no longer make them. good news is we can resleeve it with the new hd sleevs pretty cheep pm me if you need pricing.

jspeedy

Giving a Bump to get more insight

Maxcapacity

Just curious, would it be possible to throw a few tack weld's around the base of the sleeve inside of the block to make a ledge of aluminum that the sleeve will kinda sit on so it can't sink further down?

0Golden Eagle

if its one of the old econo sleeves its been decked and that's ware the problem is from it needs to be resleeved that's the only way to fix it right. new sleeves can not sink.

jspeedy

New sleeves can't Are you saying there no cases where the HD sleeves sink?<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if its one of the old econo sleeves its been decked and that's ware the problem is from it needs to be resleeved that's the only way to fix it right. new sleeves can not sink. </TD></TR></TABLE>

0Golden Eagle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jspeedy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">New sleeves can't Are you saying there no cases where the HD sleeves sink?</TD></TR></TABLE> yes i am. i have not seen even one yet the way there installed there is no ware for them to sink too

smoovy

I can atest to that. I just had my block decked and O-rings installed less than a month ago. I thought I had sunk a sleeve since the machine shop told me my head was fine. I wasn't having any mixing of oil or water but I was having water shoot out of my raidator like a fountain. til this day I still don't know what it was. the head was resurfaced and the block was decked and O-ringed and the problem went away. no pinholes reported nor a cracked head but to goldeneagle.

pro-motion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if its the old econo sleeves and its been redecked there's probably a problem with the sleeve. i always hated the econo sleeves and we no longer make them. good news is we can resleeve it with the new hd sleevs pretty cheep pm me if you need pricing. </TD></TR></TABLE>

If the block was sleeved by GE, wouldn't you guys warranty the block and resleeve for free since a sleeve sank?

pro-motion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by smoovy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I can atest to that. I just had my block decked and O-rings installed less than a month ago. I thought I had sunk a sleeve since the machine shop told me my head was fine. I wasn't having any mixing of oil or water but I was having water shoot out of my raidator like a fountain. til this day I still don't know what it was. the head was resurfaced and the block was decked and O-ringed and the problem went away. no pinholes reported nor a cracked head but to goldeneagle.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Was your block a step deck? If it was maybe you fixed the problem by going flat again on the deck of the block?

smoovy

yes it was step decked. I have no clue why they seal better now than they did before the O-rings but I have no coolant issues anymore. The machine shop I took my head to had alot of knowledge about sleeves. it made alot of sense to me. with the rising rate of heat of the 2 dissimilar metals aluminum expanding twice as fast as iron and would make sense to step deck a block that has iron sleeves to have a better seal. I maybe didn't say that right, but it made sense to me about the 2 metals, heat and expansion when he was telling me.

0Golden Eagle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pro-motion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

If the block was sleeved by GE, wouldn't you guys warranty the block and resleeve for free since a sleeve sank?</TD></TR></TABLE> econo sleeves came with a 1 year warranty and if redecked after leaving here that was voided we have not made econo sleeves in over 5 years so no it would not be covered

0Golden Eagle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pro-motion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Was your block a step deck? If it was maybe you fixed the problem by going flat again on the deck of the block?</TD></TR></TABLE> flat decking will not fix anything

Blown90hatcH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> econo sleeves came with a 1 year warranty and if redecked after leaving here that was voided we have not made econo sleeves in over 5 years so no it would not be covered </TD></TR></TABLE>

So the sleeves that you called HD back in 2001....what were they warrantied, because they were called HD back then.

pro-motion

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> flat decking will not fix anything </TD></TR></TABLE>

Oh, ok. What do you think fixed his problem then? The only 2 things different were a flat deck and a o-ring. A o-ring shouldn't have anything to do with the engine overheating?

0Golden Eagle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blown90hatcH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

So the sleeves that you called HD back in 2001....what were they warrantied, because they were called HD back then.</TD></TR></TABLE> we did not make hd sleeves in 2001, back then we had 2 different sleeves available they were the goldzilla sleeves or econo sleeves and warranty covered the original owner and stated if block was redecked after leaving here the warranty was void. the new HD sleeves are much stronger and do not have that problem like the old sleeves did. we have came a long way just like most the other sleeving shops and been doing the hd sleeves sense 03 with no problems any old block being resleeved will get the new HD sleeves at a discounted price.

0Golden Eagle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pro-motion &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Oh, ok. What do you think fixed his problem then? The only 2 things different were a flat deck and a o-ring. A o-ring shouldn't have anything to do with the engine overheating?</TD></TR></TABLE> he said nothing about overheating he said he had water shooting out the radiator and he had the head resurfaced block was redecked and oringed so maybe the head was warped and maybe the orings did it for him ether way stepdecking is a proven method of decking. now back on topic to the op just let me know when you would like to send your block in and we will get it taken care of and resleeved with the new hd sleeves and you will no longer have problems with the block.


Modified by Golden Eagle at 10:37 AM 8/22/2008

Blown90hatcH

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Golden Eagle &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> we did not make hd sleeves in 2001, back then we had 2 different sleeves available they were the goldzilla sleeves or econo sleeves and warranty covered the original owner and stated if block was redecked after leaving here the warranty was void. the new HD sleeves are much stronger and do not have that problem like the old sleeves did. we have came a long way just like most the other sleeving shops and been doing the hd sleeves sense 03 with no problems any old block being resleeved will get the new HD sleeves at a discounted price.</TD></TR></TABLE>

You are correct. I meant HD = Godzilla...I apologize. So what was the warranty against sleeves sinking with the Godzilla sleeves and how do they compare to the new HD sleeving.

0Golden Eagle

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Blown90hatcH &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

You are correct. I meant HD = Godzilla...I apologize. So what was the warranty against sleeves sinking with the Godzilla sleeves and how do they compare to the new HD sleeving.</TD></TR></TABLE> post is way off topic i sent you a pm

pro-motion

[QUOTE=Golden Eagle] he said nothing about overheating he said he had water shooting out the radiator and he had the head resurfaced block was redecked and oringed so maybe the head was warped and maybe the orings did it for him ether way stepdecking is a proven method of decking. now back on topic to the op just let me know when you would like to send your block in and we will get it taken care of and resleeved with the new hd sleeves and you will no longer have problems with the block.
QUOTE]

Oh ok, I read that the machine shop said his head was fine. So I assumed that was not the issue. So water shooting out the radiator does not go hand and foot with overheating? Thanks for letting me pick your brain.

HiProfile

My first SOHC had a reused MLS gasket & headbolts with unknown miles on it. 200F ECT's and it would blow fluid over 10psi, but fine at 7-9psi. It was either excessive timing or just old parts showing off.

A warped head, odd detonation/too much timing, or bad gasket will usually cause coolant system pressurization (above normal 16psi). The problem is that if you don't get water in the cylinders, then its a tiny leak that only happens with very high cylinder pressures. A sunk sleeve & bad gasket will fill the cylinder with fluids and push out air, while warped parts will generally only leak when pushed very far. Right before ignition (not TDC), a 8.5:1 motor at 15psi will end up with ~225psi pushing outwards. That gets multiplied like crazy at ~8-16* after TDC where peak cylinder pressures occur (if I recall correctly).

BTW if that shop didn't have the means to test if the sleeve sunk even .001", there's something wrong with them. You strap the block down to a mill, slap a dial onto the mill, then compair sleeve heights to deck height. When I milled my ITR brake brackets, I measured to w/in .0002", and they ended up +/- .0008" between all four - using tools and machine shop with a mill should have.