2K_TEG

OK, just as the topic says, which is the better buy. I can get Hondata 2B for $880 (Club-Si GB) that includes the Hondata, OBD2-->OBD1 harness and a P28 ECU already chipped. To add data logging the total comes to $1060.
The EMS is about $1300.
The standalone is going in a 2000 LS eventually running 1 Bar. I am not into all out HP or ¼ mile times, I just want a fast car that maintains “factory turbocharged” reliability and drivability. Which would you choose?
Here is some relevant information:
1. The only dyno near my house (Colletti Motorsports) deals with Hondata, they have not done an EMS system yet. BUT, it seems that if someone knew what he or she was doing as far as tuning a FI engine, he would be able to figure out the EMS software.
2. The EMS seems simpler to me, no ODB1 conversion, no chipped ECUs, no burning ROMS. I believe in K.I.S.S. I do not understand what exactly it means to chip an ECU or burn a ROM. Can someone enlighten me to this process, and yes I have read the Hondata website. Do I need to install a new chip in the ECU every time I change my setup? Does this involve soldering every time I change my setup? The EMS can be updated with a laptop and interface cable, is the Hondata this easy. I am not going to be changing my setup everyday, but I would like to know how difficult it is going to be to change.
3. I am planning on running 550cc injectors, I hear this is a problem with the Hondata.
4. If the price difference is negligible +/- ~$200, I think the AEM has more features, but I am not sure if I would ever use them all.
Please, just give me a good ole kick in the right direction. I am going to spend a lot of money on a standalone to avoid the “band-aid” fixes, I want to get the best fit for my needs. Thanks in advance, I am sure I will come up with more questions.



[Modified by 2K_TEG, 4:46 AM 3/16/2002]

01geeser

if it came down to money id get the ems. simply because you can try to tune the ems urself as opposed to having to rely on someone with a 4b to do anything with your 2b.

Anubyss

I am not an expert by any means and have no hands on experience with either systems, but have been researching both systems. Here is my view of the two sytems.

Hondata (chipped), harness, and ecu will cost as much as the EMS if not more since you have to compare similar functions. This means adding the data logging capability and changing the ecu to a P72 since P28 does not have a knock sensor. EMS has both functions. You will get better support with Hondata (more users out there) since it's been out longer and shops are more familiar with the product. I am sure this will be the case with the EMS as well but not right now. EMS apparently has very poor base maps for cars (once again you can get help from users with a simliar setup as you, for Hondata). It has got to be easier having a good starting point than tuning something from scratch.

EMS has more functions and capabilities than the Hondata. This may or may not be good, depending on the individual. Some may actually want to add more control, while some will not even want bother with it. EMS will probably take longer to tune. There are more parts with Hondata and you will have to find someone with a 4b setup to tune your system. With the EMS, you only need a laptop, nothing else. The EMS had some issues with updating the software, where it becomes corrupt and the only solution is to send it back.

For you case, I would recommend the Hondata since a tuner shop is near you. If you really think that shop has good FI tuners, you can just download and show the EMS setup and see what they think of it.

I am pretty sure I am leaving out lots of relevant technical points and don't even know if all the terminology is correct but this is what I've gathered from reading posts and going to both sites. There are a couple of people with hands on experience with the products, so hopefully they will answer you. I would really like to know what the 'experts' think of the two systems as well.

MugenSi00

as far as the ecu's with the hondata and my understanding from asking questions, the p72 is not needed and if you have an ecu with knock sensor, hondata has you disable it. A J&S safeguard is the better choice for knock detection.

MugenSi00

where is the info on the csi gb?

2K_TEG

http://forums.clubsi.com/showflat.ph...b=5&o=0&fpart=

Keep the responses coming, thanks.

ekb18c

The best suggestion is get whatever your tunner feels comfortable with the most. If you tuner is comfortable with Hondata then go with Hondata. Do you want him to guniue pig you for his first Aem Ems?

2K_TEG

Is the actual tuning that much different? I will, BTW, probally go with the Hondata GB.

Thanks,

Hondata

The Hondata system is not as easy to update as other systems, but once tuned it should not need updating. Soldering is not needed every update, and your tuner will be able to provide you with several chips if necessary. One with 5% more fuel, one with 10 % (or whatever you want). The blank chips are only $4.

There are no problems with 550 injectors. Payn Technologies has a B20 turbo running 830 injectors with stock idle and driveability and 30 mpg.

Disabling the knock sensor is an option on those ecus that have one. This option was added at the request of tuners who said that forged pistons can rattle, triggering the knock sensor into a false retard.

Anubyss

Hondata, can you tell me if you have fuel maps for an h22a4 turbo Prelude? 7psi, 550cc injectors, cams, cam gears, high pressure intank fuel pump.....Oh and one more thing, how much for a used P72 if you can get your hands on one? Thanks.

2K_TEG

Explain this exactly, why would I need a chip with 5% more fuel vs. 10% more fuel. I thought that the Hondata read the sensors and changed fuel accordingly. If I wanted to run a EBC and keep a high and low boost setting would I have to change the chip each time I changed the setting? What exactly is involved with changing the chip? This is the only scenerio I can think of that it would be a pain to change settings, I can understand needing a new chip after upgrading the IC or turbo, something like that. Thanks

Hondata

I was just using this as a for example. Some of our customers have a chip specifically tuned for race fuel. That would have been a better example.

When your boost controller changes boost level the ECU sees that boost value and automatically changes fuelling and ignition.

We have several maps for H22As. Two that come to mind are:

one with 720 injectors and 420 hp at 18 lb boost,
another with 440 injectors and about 220 hp at 7 psi.

2K_TEG

OK, that makes sense to me then. You really threw me for a loop there.

2K_TEG

TTT

pornstarSR

i think hondata is great they are the ones that helped start this entire thing.....there systems is one of the first full systems....

the EMS has alot of help behind it because of the company....im not saying Hondata isnt big , but AEM can have more background done on it because of the capital they can put forward....

but im also not saying anyone is better than the other...they are just different systems made for different types of tuners,

weigh the ups and downs and make your decision on what you think you will be comfortable with, cause in the end its your car....you have to look at it everyday and drive it everyday