spidermancivic

my cars been at autowave for the past week. application is a jrsc civic si b16a2@11.5 psi with the mvm stepper pulley with hondata S2B and RC 550s. Mike is the tuner if your fimiliar with him and we've been trying to diagnose a tuning problem@WOT for the past week. day one of tuning resulted in 127whp and disappointing problems. i have not been there for the other 5 days, but, Shawn at autowave has been calling me everday about the results.

anyways, idle and acceleration is fine except@WOT, where there is bogging in boost. before the tune, we put in some colder plugs. our first problem was that we were amazed that the stepper pulley put out almost 12 psi, so, we swapped to the 3 bar map in. it still did not solve the problem so, we checked the cap, rotor, and coil. they were all getting toasted, so, we replaced them.................it didnt solve the problem. i remember the cat was clogged so they dropped out the cat and it seemed to free up a bit. we cleared the cat up a bit and the problem is still persisting@WOT under boost. We popped the valve cover and found a few tight valves, so, we adjusted them. compression and leakdown shows two cylinders are a little weak, but, not life threatning. after $748 on the dyno, im just going to bring the car back home tommorrow morning and start troubleshooting myself to save time and money. Ill give the TPS a look when it gets here. gonna check all wiring from the ecu to under the hood.

im also thinking, weak valve springs. i found a set of oem valve springs and retainers. i think i might pick em up and see what goes on with that too. i was also thinking timing belt, but, that is a long shot. maybe vacuum leaks, but, vac gauge shows a steady 20inhg at idle? also, the JR FMU is still connected, but, with the vac source unplugged from the fmu and fuel lines still running in and out to the stock fpr. source of vacuum is also plugged. gonna spend my weekend checking all sensors and wiring.

What can the problem be. the tuning seems fine, the blower seems fine. I thought of belt slippage, but, there is no drop in boost.

Dunc

May seem stupid, but are you fuel and ignition curves smooth and not crossing over each other under the 2D view in hondata??

spidermancivic

ill post a pix tommorrow. whats basically going on is, its going to **** in boost.

Mase

if you can send me datalogs and your bin file, i can probably help you out.

whats vtec set at, and why do u have the fmu still hooked up?

post any dyno graphs.

spidermancivic

thanks for the help mase, but, i dont know how to send datalogs and bin files. ill post all revelant info tommorrow.

Mase

what happens when u get into boost, does it bog, hesitate, pop, detonate? what are the AFR's and ignition timing? or do u not know yet?

Ray-mond

keep us posted

spidermancivic

i dont know yet. i didnt mention it yet, but, even before installing the hondata, injectors, and tuning the car,..................it still bogged in boost with the fmu on.

talking to autowave on the phone, the A/F is right on from idle and acceleration. the problem comes from WOT and going into boost. there are no lean areas. this bogging problem comes from occasional backfiring.

Mr. Anderson

The bogging and backfiring seem to suggest your timing is off and/or you're running too rich at WOT . Install a fuel pressure gauge if you haven't done so already. I'm sorry you spent $748 on a dyno at a shop that doesn't know how to diagnose problems such as this. Furthermore they should not have continued to charge up the bill while not providing any productive service. Good luck to you and keep us posted

hypa

the first thing I'm going to tell you is lose the FMU. Get it out of the system ASAP, if anything, to simplify things and remove one of your "potential problems".

-What did your datalogs say about the TPS, MAP, etc?
-Were they all reading where they should be?
-Do you run adjustable cam gears?
what about the plug wires? Could there be a dead wire?


I agree with Mase. Post up some more info from the tune, and let us look at it. Something silly isn't right, it's just a matter of finding what it is.

spidermancivic

heres todays update.

i have oem cam gears.

Couldnt get any printouts or postable info today when i picked up the car because Mike wasnt in today. Ill call him monday when he's back in, because, still have to pick up some of my stock parts frm him. Im not a hondata expert, but, do all tuners save hondata info on there lap tops? I wanted to post whatever results for you experienced folks out there . anyways................Ill tell it from a lamen person's way.

Shawn told me that the tuning was good. AFs are at 12.0s. the only problem is from the studdering and bogging from WOT. Idle and acceleration (including acclerating into boost without WOT is good).

My first drive was awesome. The idle was good. With the hondata on, there is no more detonation, the car runs smooth in all rpm ranges (before, it occasionally studders at low rpms and feels lack of power), my vtec engagement is so much more noticable and felt, the car feels like a new animal (in a very good way :D ) Ive never really experienced or even imagined my car to run so smooth.

now, enough of the good stuff, lets get going with the bad. In WOT, the boost gauge climbs and holds steady @ 11psi. Power is still felt, speed and and rpms are increasing. During all this at WOT, you can feel the car studder and bog a bit at full boost in WOT. At almost 12 psi, i would expect much better than this. it feels like 6 psi.

I will definately checked all of what you had said Jim, but, I also have something strange to share. Before the hondata, I had a walbro 255 high pressure fuel pump installed and changed out the fuel filter at the same time. Ever since that day, my fuel pressure gauge has been reading 70 psi at idle and static with the JR FMU. Now that the hondata is in, the gauge still reads 70 psi at idle (PS: How do i check static with the hondata on?) Im thinking it will also read 70 psi. If this is the case, could it be the fuel pressure gauge messing up, or is it something else? What would cause the fuel pressure to read so high? Also, where should ignition timing be set at @ idle?

spidermancivic

UPDATE
fuel pressure is still at 70 psi in idle (when the car is just sitting there and running) and static (when i remove the vacuum nipple off the fpr) with the fmu off completely off. took it for a test drive and nothings changed. maybe i need an aftermarket fuel pressure regulator for my walbro 255lph high pressure fuel pump?

The OEM map sensor is still in its original place and its connector unplugged and an open vacuum nipple, which is replaced by the 3 bar map. The TPS and MAP sensors are in the correct places. I have still have not yet checked the voltage on the TPS because i dont have a voltage reader. its reading is in DC...........correct?

I checked ignition timing with my timing gun and it is set at 15 btdc. funny thing is that there are random 1/2 second pauses in the flashes of the timing gun as though something is skipping. ive never seen this before. is this normal with the hondata in?

i observed my bypass valve under boost. heres a pix i borrowed from boostedex. im not sure which direction is open and which is closed, so, ill just describe it. the lever stays where it is as seen in the pix in idle. under boost it moves to the right (driverside towards the blower)and moves left (passengerside towards the throttlebody) when letting go of the gas pedal. there are no leaks in the vacuum hose.


i will replace my ngk spark plug wires with oem ones and a new fuel filter to see if that changes anything on monday (honda is closed on sundays ) tommorrow i will double check the wires i chopped off and resoldered when i removed all the JR band-aids.

mrbsponge

i am curious why you had the fmu still in with the hondata?? its not supposed to be there because it takes the FP way too high.

also try gapping the plugs lower and lower and see if the problem goes away, i had a same issue with mine but i ended up with a spark plug gap of .022, and it doesnt do it anymore. if i go to .024 it pops like popcorn.

also what spark plugs are you using?? try some bkr7e's they are for the 300hp range and work great.

are the engine internals stock?? 81mm bore sizes like less timing that the bog bore motors it may be a hondata timing issue.... how much is the boost retard set up for, how many degrees per psi of boost. we ended up ahving to give an ungodly amount of timing to mine, we really didnt feel comfortable with all that timing but the motor seemed to love it.

your fuel pressure is WAY WAY too high at idle, 70psi is crazy, you need a regulator to lower it down to like 38-40. i always had problems with fuel pressure being to high dont buy a cheap regulator cause they woint lower pressure but only raise it.


plugs
Fuel pressure
timing

this is where your problems lye i am positive

sharkcohen

I would try replacing the Walbro with the stock pump, and then retuning the car.

i2un

I guess I'm a little late on chiming in. But here goes:

1. Figure out why your fuel pressure is at 70 psi. I doubt it is the pump because I have a Walbro pump also and my fuel pressure is around 40psi...I think it was about 50psi before I installed the AEM fpr. Hopefully it is just a busted gauge.

2. I'm not entirely familiar with your set-up being that I have a GSR, but I thought the MVM pulley usually only increased boost by 2-3psi. I would've assumed that you'd be hitting 9-10 psi tops. Maybe a bottlekneck somewhere or something?

3. Did you at least get final dyno numbers? What did your car put down? I also dyno'd at Autowave when I was at 8psi; And so did a friend of mine with a JR GSR MVM pulley. We could compare numbers throughout your rpm range if you get a printout.

4. Mike probably retarded your timing quite a bit on top since your car was having issues. That could be the studder your feeling. Actually when I moved from 8psi to 10 psi, the butt dyno wasn't really noticeably better. Pulls just as hard as before maybe pulls a little longer though. If I can ever get to a track, I'll know if it is faster or not.

5. Lastly, Mase offered up some help, if you get him the info, he could probably help you. Keep in mind he is a busy guy and when he offers up some help you should jump on it. Trust me he is a very compatent tuner and is familiar with tuning a JR kit.

Ps....Overall it sounds like it was still a big improvement and hopefully if the dyno numbers sound good, mechanically everything is sound, the car doesn't drive shitty and you're happy with it maybe you won't need to change anything.

Good luck!

spidermancivic

im thinking maybe the gauge is busted. i am going to get a new gauge and FPR just to see if it changes anything. if its not the gauge, then, i am wondering if the fuel pressure will cause this problem at WOT? With over 20 pulls on the dyno, each and every single time showed 11.5 psi of boost on the screen. i cant get a printout. i was going to get the datalogger so i can try using it to help diagnose my problem at WOT. Maybe Mase can help me with the problem if i send him some of this datalogging info. Max Hp was at 126whp @ WOT . didnt bother trying to get final numbers after that, because, it would be consistent if we did not fix the problem at WOT.

Im not sure whats going on with the ignition timing, but, it seems to skip randomly for 1/2 a second which ive never noticed before the hondata. ive already swapped out the NGK plug wires to new OEM ones. NGK R5672A-3 spark plugs are gapped to .023. i am going to pick up some BKR7F-11s and giving them the same gap to see what happens. the only other thing i can think of is the valve springs or tps being the root of the problem. speaking with mike and shane, they said the problem is not in the hondata system. they said everything is fine in the tuning.

im just really getting pissed off at this. i may just rip everything out and put it back to stock. thinking about getting a 4WD CRV.