leed

A bit new to Hondata, having fun w/ it. Looking for feedback on my ignition maps.
The short list:
91 CRXsi
B16 (stock internals), LS tranny (the s1 took a dump)
OBD0-1 swap
Hondata 4bd (p28)
Low budget boost:
T3 .48/.60
Two Supercoupe IC's welded together for a FMIC
2.5" DP to 3" all the way

Heres the Ign maps. I used the Fmax9psi base tune and went from there. Had to add alot of fuel on the top end. Dyno'd at 237 at 8psi. A/F was 11.5-11.9.
Static timing of 14' matches RomEditor
This is the map used on the dyno. Have since added timing on the low speed map in mid-rpm boost. Mid range MUCH better.

LowSpeed:


HighSpeed:


Opinions welcome.

Heres a vid of my first time to the track w/ this setup. Street tires. Homemade 2stage boost controller. 5psi1st and beginning of second. 9psi top of second and 3rd, 4th.
Hard to see, but a 13.7 at 108.8
lost to a sweet *** Dodge product in the 4th round.
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....DE%3D

Dyno run. Shitty audio, too loud for my POS vintage camera
http://www.we-todd-did-racing....3D%3D

Car drives perfect. Gets 34mpg frwy (grandma driving w/ 0 boost)

Modified by leed at 9:08 AM 5/17/2003


Modified by leed at 9:17 AM 5/17/2003


Modified by leed at 9:21 AM 5/17/2003

leed

Links fixed.

EKFerioHawaii

bump to the tizzle.

danl

Ignition is easy. Just run as much of it as you can untill you run into preignition. Of course you gotta know when you preignite, and your ears suck for listening to that. So, i the end its not so easy.

boosted hybrid

You cant hear detonation WOT in boost. Only with a stephoscope you are going to be able, i.e on the dyno only.

As far as your ignition maps are concerned, if you have the timing syncronized with hondata a 14 degrees, then your maps are very very conservative. Stock timing up top is 32 degrees, so you are running approx 2-3 degrees retard per pound of boost. I usually tune with .5 degrees per pound of boost on 9:1~10:1, and .65~.7 degree retard for 10~11:1 compression. You'll gain a significant more power if you up the timing on both the low speed and high speed map a few more degrees.


Modified by boosted hybrid at 10:29 AM 5/17/2003

GruvyTune

i agree, I am never less than 22 deg advanced in high boost on high cam,

advance timing till you seen no more power gains or you start hearing detonation.

ekb18c

agreed. Ignition maps are extremely conservative.

danl

You can hear detonation; you just need the proper tools to do so. Their are many devices used over the years to monitor both detonation and preignition on a moving car. The simplest being a vacuum tube with one end connected to a bolt on the back of the block, and the other end pressed up to your ear. The more complicated being modern day knock sensors, which are in essence in most cases piezoelectric (sp) microphone.

leed

Thanks for the replies. I know I on the conservative side right now. Thinking of getting a J&S to be able to find the timing "threshold". I know what pinging sounds like, but hard to hear at full boost. (cars got losts of rattles/squeeks too)

What are you Hondata/EMS guys running for timing under boost?

TIA

Jared

Steelman chassis ears work well to, but you have to know what to listen for.

danl

I've seen my factory knock sensor maxed out but i've never heard a single ping from my car LOL.

SOUNDEFFECTS

Gurvytune, at what PSI level does your ignition curves top out at 22? I assume they just stay flat from say 20psi-30psi,no? I'm also assuming that at that level they are on race gas as well.

leed

Added some timing today. Working out great. Thanks for the advise.

Hondata

GruvyTune

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SOUNDEFFECTS &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Gurvytune, at what PSI level does your ignition curves top out at 22? I assume they just stay flat from say 20psi-30psi,no? I'm also assuming that at that level they are on race gas as well.</TD></TR></TABLE>

i flatten off after 11psi. from 11 on up its the same.

whoever was thinking of getting a j&s, i recommend not getting it. it picks up all sorts of noise as knock no matter what you set it to. I'm going to be building an amplifier that i can use to listen for knock so i KNOW if its pinging or not.

danl

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GruvyTune &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

i flatten off after 11psi. from 11 on up its the same.

whoever was thinking of getting a j&s, i recommend not getting it. it picks up all sorts of noise as knock no matter what you set it to. I'm going to be building an amplifier that i can use to listen for knock so i KNOW if its pinging or not.</TD></TR></TABLE>

External noise is a definite problem.

Farnsrocket

Hey, leed, were the ignition maps you posted the maps that came with Hondata?

TurbodCX

are you running 21degrees of advance with pump gas??

what are you guys using on pump gas??

Brian

boosted hybrid

@ 15lbs I tune for 22-24 total advance in hondata.

TurbodCX

thanks alot bro.!!!


this is on pump gas correct?

hulkhb

yea dave get that bitch tunned man ! The A6rex is almost road worthy, but i need a ECU, chump

boosted hybrid

Yes that is on pump gas. I dont push more than 14-15psi on pump gas within the 9~9.5:1 compression range. I state between 22-24 total advance since it depends on how the engine is reacting to the changes that are being made. If the engine is making that much more power with 24 degree total advance I'll bump it down to save the engine a bit. With your compression being 8:1 you can get away with more boost, or a bit more aggresive igntion timing. I would estimate that if you are running the 15psi range you could run 25-26 degrees total advance with zero problems.

TurbodCX

Thanks alot man!! You are one of the most helpful guys on this board!!!!

you get a from me!!!

Thanks
Brian

leed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Hey, leed, were the ignition maps you posted the maps that came with Hondata?</TD></TR></TABLE>

That is the Fmax9psi base map. I have changed Idle fueling, added fuel in the boost portions, taken fuel outa low load/rpm areas, and added timing in mid-rpm boosted areas. Drives very well, idles solid, 34mpg on LS tranny. Just sorting out/learning the timing. about 40 changes/runs total. Did alot of WOT/Pull plugs runs.

Jay, your ECU is being delayed cause' you pussed out on going to PIR.
Its on its way

GruvyTune

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted hybrid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">@ 15lbs I tune for 22-24 total advance in hondata. </TD></TR></TABLE>

agreed i do the same. sometimes even more aggressive depending on the setup.

TurbodCX

Thanks alot guys, i went home after reading these post and put 23 degrees of timing in the car and it runs so much better that with 19!!!


I also put c16 in that car and i bumped the timing to 34 degrees of timing, do you think this is over doing it??

I have 34 degrees from 11psi over to 24psi , i have already ran 21 on this timing map, the car pulls strong as ****!!!

Thanks again,

Brian