KooK

Currently I have a 95 GSR with a Vortech V5-G Supercharger. This car is pretty much just a daily driver but I would still like to be able to have a reliable 260-300whp without having to worry about ringlands or any of that.

Currently I'm thinking about going with my stock crankshaft, Eagle "ESP" H-beam Forged 4340 Steel Connecting Rods, and I'm thinking wiseco pistons, maybe 9:1-9.5:1 Compression.

Two extra questions, will it hurt me if I bore the stock sleeves out .25 over, or should I just hone if everything looks fine and run std. size rings and pistons? Because I believe Honing removed a good .002 from the cylinder walls. Also, Can I use OEM Honda rings with these pistons? Will I be ok with this power level on stock sleeves? I think I should but I just want to be sure.

Boostage

Well Kook, Wiseco's comes with rings already, no need for oem ones, personally I would'nt remove material from the stock sleeves. but thats just me. eagle rods will work just fine but pretty soon the HT Bandwagon express will roll in and tell you you need $700 rods.. ignore them. Superchargers can be fun. sorta, but a turbo is definatly the way to go on these cars for an infinate amount of reasons. you really should consider liquidating the vortech and peicing together a small turbo setup. just my opinion though.

EDIT- if 300whp is all you want and have no plans to go much higher, stock rods are more than suffcient.

KooK

But from previous research, I hear I cannot use stock rods with aftermarket pistons because the stock rod is really short. I ONLY want 300whp because I just tore this engine apart for a rebuild, and decided I might as well upgrade the internals just a little bit so I don't have to worry about it down the road.

As far as Supercharger Vs. Turbo? It's all in opinion, but for a daily driver appication, I would rather have a centrifical Supercharger.

My Mustang is a different story...

Old Setup
http://i25.photobucket.com/alb...1.jpg
New Setup (Currently in the works)
http://i25.photobucket.com/alb...8.jpg

blackmagicCRX

The rods should be the same length.

Muckman

iTrader: (2)

I dont think you found accurate information on rods. Then rod has to be the same length to keep the piston at the same height below the deck.

Boostage

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KooK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">But from previous research, I hear I cannot use stock rods with aftermarket pistons because the stock rod is really short. I ONLY want 300whp because I just tore this engine apart for a rebuild, and decided I might as well upgrade the internals just a little bit so I don't have to worry about it down the road.

As far as Supercharger Vs. Turbo? It's all in opinion, but for a daily driver appication, I would rather have a centrifical Supercharger.

My Mustang is a different story...

Old Setup
http://i25.photobucket.com/alb...1.jpg
New Setup (Currently in the works)
http://i25.photobucket.com/alb...8.jpg</TD></TR></TABLE>


Negative on the Stock rod being shorter than aftermarket. however the motor is apart and eagles are only around $300 last I checked. but I am very curious as to why you would rather run a centrifugal charger over a turbo, I ask because I just think you might have a few misconceptions about turbo hondas.

KooK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Muckman &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I dont think you found accurate information on rods. Then rod has to be the same length to keep the piston at the same height below the deck. </TD></TR></TABLE>

I swear to freaking God I read that in like, three posts but I can't find it anymore.

Either way, my stock rods would need to be align honed and replaced with ARP 2000 bolts anyway, I'm already halfway there to eagle rods, unless you guys can tell me without a doubt that rods with 110k miles on them will hold up to 300whp on a blower.

Boostfed

For your set up and power goals get some Eagle rods, that is fine. You can bore to .020" over or .5mm with no problems at all just make sure to have a good tune. Sleeves will split at stock bore if you have a bad tune and detonate. Good luck!


Now see Geoff I didn't post he needed $700 rods for his set up!


Edit:You Compression Ratio options from Wiseco are 8.7-8.9:1 CR and then they make another piston for 9.7-10.2:1 CR for stock 81mm or 81.5mm bore good luck, also if you need any parts you can contact me or any of the great Honda-Tech vendors on here

Boostage

Rods dont incur wear, only the bolts and bearings do, theoretically as long as you use rods within the Rpm it was designed for and moderate power levels it can be reused over and over forever. if you are on a budget just put in the ARP's dont worry you can sleep in comfort with stock rods at 300whp assuming you retain teh stock redline.

Boostage

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostfed.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Now see Geoff I didn't post he needed $700 rods for his set up! </TD></TR></TABLE>

lol

KooK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Negative on the Stock rod being shorter than aftermarket. however the motor is apart and eagles are only around $300 last I checked. but I am very curious as to why you would rather run a centrifugal charger over a turbo, I ask because I just think you might have a few misconceptions about turbo hondas.</TD></TR></TABLE>

There are still alot of drawbacks to the reliability of Turbos Vs. Superchargers and most of them have to do with Heat. Not saying a centrifugal blower doesn't make some heat but, after driving for a few hours, I can still put my hand on it without getting 2nd degree burns. Not to mention boost spikes, Boost Creep, Boost Lag; here's a biggy, boost controllers. Superchargers are more constant, easier to tune and all around in my opinion, best for daily driving. The only thing the Turbo has on a blower is efficiency giving it more power.

I've worked on Turbo Hondas, I've driven turbo Hondas and they're great, but it's just a difference in opinion. I'm not looking for raw power, I just want something where I don't have to think about it everyday, I can get to work, school and back.

Boostfed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rods dont incur wear, only the bolts and bearings do, theoretically as long as you use rods within the Rpm it was designed for and moderate power levels it can be reused over and over forever. if you are on a budget just put in the ARP's dont worry you can sleep in comfort with stock rods at 300whp assuming you retain teh stock redline. </TD></TR></TABLE>

With as much as you spend on the bolts and machining I would just jump into Eagles for PEACE OF MIND!

Edit: I like/LOVE turbos but if you are set on your Supercharger! Keep it, don';t let Geoff sway your opinions he is just an H-T Bandwagoner anyways! lol

KooK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Rods dont incur wear, only the bolts and bearings do, theoretically as long as you use rods within the Rpm it was designed for and moderate power levels it can be reused over and over forever. if you are on a budget just put in the ARP's dont worry you can sleep in comfort with stock rods at 300whp assuming you retain teh stock redline. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Metal fatigue?

nonvtecD

align honed? you align hone cranks, not rods... FYI

KooK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostfed.com &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
Edit: I like/LOVE turbos but if you are set on your Supercharger! Keep it, don';t let Geoff sway your opinions he is just an H-T Bandwagoner anyways! lol</TD></TR></TABLE>

I love turbos also, just not aftermarket setups for daily driving. Most of the time they're alot more unconventional than you would come to think.

Boostage

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KooK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Metal fatigue?</TD></TR></TABLE>


Steel Connecting rods dont flex. springs or any other parts that experiences recoil or stretch is prone to fatigue. as long as they are used within the designed operating RPM they wont wear unlike valve springs.

KooK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Steel Connecting rods dont flex.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I beg to differ, the forces put on all of your internals, not to mention heat, will cause an extremely slight amount of flexing, bending, stretching and/or compressing. This is why you will see some bone stock 1990 Celicas throw a rod. Unless you can show me a group of engineers who tell me otherwise, rods do have metal fatigue.

Adr!an

Yeah but wouldnt it be better off to know that you have brand new rods installed, there is nothing like piece of mind IMO..... And also meatal fatigue would definately be a factor as the rods get heats and cooled on a regular basis and have spun for over 100K miles. I would take the chance if on a tight budget but since he has the money then Eagle all the way

Boostage

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KooK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

I beg to differ, the forces put on all of your internals, not to mention heat, will cause an extremely slight amount of flexing, bending, stretching and/or compressing. This is why you will see some bone stock 1990 Celicas throw a rod. Unless you can show me a group of engineers who tell me otherwise, rods do have metal fatigue.</TD></TR></TABLE>

None of what you mentioned happens to steel rods under normal operating conditions, aluminium rods however will stretch,bend and compress. I know nothing about stock celica rods but that seriously sounds like a factory defect some of the original LS400 Lexus' which came out in 1990 are still running over 450-500k original miles.so are many hondas and other toyotas. semi's are running well over 1 million. then rebuilt with the same rods. I can assure good connecting rods can be reused over and over, same with your crankshaft. we are talking about a 300whp motor with stock redline, not a Formula 1 race car.

KooK

You're almost making it sound like steel rods are indestructable.

Steel will flex LESS than aluminum but it still flexes. Rods don't just up and one day bend or break, of course theres too much power, but when you have cars running 140whp under what the manufaturer recommends for peak power and still breaking steel rods, its because of metal fatigue. You can't sit there and tell me that it just doesn't happen on steel rods.

Boostage

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KooK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">You're almost making it sound like steel rods are indestructable.

Steel will flex LESS than aluminum but it still flexes. Rods don't just up and one day bend or break, of course theres too much power, but when you have cars running 140whp under what the manufaturer recommends for peak power and still breaking steel rods, its because of metal fatigue. You can't sit there and tell me that it just doesn't happen on steel rods.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Kook, that seems like a very isolated issue, so isolated that its news to me. lets use process fo elimination here. there are a few million cars made 1990 and before, that are still running mind you, but these celicas are creating vents in their blocks while remaining completely stock. how could other cars be still running while a few celicas throw rods? I mean to me that indicates a defect a defect that affects that model year of car. how many cars have you known to throw a rod just because it got high in mileage? are you sure they are not losing oil pumps during spirted runs then sending the rod through the block?

KooK

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Kook, that seems like a very isolated issue, so isolated that its news to me. lets use process fo elimination here. there are a few million cars made 1990 and before, that are still running mind you, but these celicas are creating vents in their blocks while remaining completely stock. how could other cars be still running while a few celicas throw rods? I mean to me that indicates a defect a defect that affects that model year of car. how many cars have you known to throw a rod just because it got high in mileage? are you sure they are not losing oil pumps during spirted runs then sending the rod through the block?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Nevermind, I'm talking to an engineer here. There is metal fatigue but only if they're superheated. Sorry man.

Boostfed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boostage &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Kook, that seems like a very isolated issue, so isolated that its news to me. lets use process fo elimination here. there are a few million cars made 1990 and before, that are still running mind you, but these celicas are creating vents in their blocks while remaining completely stock. how could other cars be still running while a few celicas throw rods? I mean to me that indicates a defect a defect that affects that model year of car. how many cars have you known to throw a rod just because it got high in mileage? are you sure they are not losing oil pumps during spirted runs then sending the rod through the block?</TD></TR></TABLE>

I am thinking these things gotta be getting really old and needs an overhaul, they prolly spin a bearing and throw and rod eventually. Just what I THINK. I have a bone stock 94 Honda Civic DX with 289,000 miles on it, timing belt snapped and water pump went out but no damage from that. Also the rockers/lifters make alot of noise which I hear happens on these old SOHC BUT my rods still in teh block

Boostage

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by KooK &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Nevermind, I'm talking to an engineer here. There is metal fatigue but only if they're superheated. Sorry man. </TD></TR></TABLE>

which never happens under normal operating conditions, as I have said like 3 times already