heretolearnandteach

Setup:
Benson Sleeved B18b block
Cp Pistons
OEM headgasket Copper Sprayed
390 miles on 93 octane
110 miles on E85

I pulled the plugs for the first time today and this is what I got, I have no idea how to feel about it. Car runs absolutely perfect and has good compression and leakdown numbers.

The picture of the piston top is not to great, but the whol cylinder has a redish tint to it which I have no idea what could cause it.

What is going on here?

SOHCD16y8

Did you use any type of octane boost in the 93 or anything else that may be weird? That could cause the red color.

heretolearnandteach

Actually the fuel in the tank was old so I added some octane booster for the first tank. I guess that solves the color, but what about all the **** on the plugs? Could it be stuff in the charge pipes that didnt get cleaned out from welding maybe and got into the cylinders?

Has anyone seen anything like this before? Is there anyway to clean the cylinders out?

Cookie

http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/t...2.asp

Actually looks normal. I'm with him,, someone probably ran an octane booster through. Change the plugs, run normal fuel. You should be good.

I had that problem once when I ran a 110 race fuel through. It kills my Vtec and turned the plugs red.

Change out.

alpha

Put another set of plugs in the motor. Then take more pictures. What heat range plugs? Does the car smoke? Burn oil? Tuned for E85?

heretolearnandteach

I just dont see how that can be normal for such low miles, I have never seen a motor do this before so soon. Is it possible that **** just came in through the charge piping and then depositte on the plugs which accelerated the build-up?

heretolearnandteach

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by alpha &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Put another set of plugs in the motor. Then take more pictures. What heat range plugs? Does the car smoke? Burn oil? Tuned for E85?</TD></TR></TABLE>

There is a new set in now, it is raining however so I cant go drive it. I should be able to in the morning.

The plugs are NGK BKR7E-11. Tuned for E85. Does not burn any oil or coolant a least that I can tell. No smoke out the exhaust etc.

alpha

Try to get some pictures of the plugs after a pull. Take your camera with you so you can get pictures of the plugs immediately after the pull

heretolearnandteach

Thats the plan, thanks for the help. Any idea what everything on them now could be?

bigbadboy

yea e85 burns the plugs a little differently. really hard to get any kind of reading. specially if you run 93 on the plugs and then go to e85. i looked funky when i pulled them out after running 93 then e85 but after the plugs got all e85 they always come out really clean

heretolearnandteach

Ok well that makes sense. Any ideas as to what all the **** in the cylinder is though?

heretolearnandteach

Anyone else have any ideas?

mrbsponge

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by heretolearnandteach &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I just dont see how that can be normal for such low miles, I have never seen a motor do this before so soon. Is it possible that **** just came in through the charge piping and then depositte on the plugs which accelerated the build-up?</TD></TR></TABLE>


Nothing that looks like that would be coming thru your charge piping. if anything was able to make it from the turbo, thru the cooler and into the motor, you would see MUCH more than that, and it wouldnt be pretty, it would be damage.


stick with your tuned fuel

B6tPoweredMx3

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrbsponge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Nothing that looks like that would be coming thru your charge piping. if anything was able to make it from the turbo, thru the cooler and into the motor, you would see MUCH more than that, and it wouldnt be pretty, it would be damage.


stick with your tuned fuel</TD></TR></TABLE>

x2

heretolearnandteach

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrbsponge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


Nothing that looks like that would be coming thru your charge piping. if anything was able to make it from the turbo, thru the cooler and into the motor, you would see MUCH more than that, and it wouldnt be pretty, it would be damage.


stick with your tuned fuel</TD></TR></TABLE>

I was thinking that maybe it was stuff in the piping from welding and sitting in my garage for a while that I couldnt get cleaned out maybe. That way it wouldnt have to travel through the whole system.

Any ideas of what it could be then?

Just to clarify, the car was tuned on both 93 and E85.

Thanks for the help guys.

nateg

looks to me like there was some water in the fuel too

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mrbsponge &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">stick with your tuned fuel</TD></TR></TABLE>

What fun is that?

Diesel

nateg

i just noticed your on the e too i run that but my plugs look normal so i'd blame the water or the additive

heretolearnandteach

I just put another 80 or so miles on the plugs. They look a lot more normal and the cylinders seem to be cleaning out a bit. Im guessing the additive and the fact that the fuel was in the tank for 9 months had something to do with it.

The only thing that is still a little weird is that the number 4 cylinder has a nice dark ring around the base, #3 is a little lighter, #2 is more of a light brown, and #1 looks pretty clean. All of the electrodes look normal and consistent.

Could this be caused by the way the fuel and air travels in the motor? The car still runs the same and there is zero oil loss.

alpha

We know you have a camera Post pictures

heretolearnandteach

Here are the pics of the plugs, see what I mean about how they get darker down the cylinders. The top of the pistons also seem to get dirtier down the line too.

Cylinder #1

Cylinder #2

Cylinder #3

Cylinder #4



Thanks

Bigblockhatch

Wow the timing is off the electrode......U need to make a pull and shut the motor off....Then pull a plug and read it....This is the only way to get a good reading on a plug

heretolearnandteach

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Bigblockhatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Wow the timing is off the electrode......U need to make a pull and shut the motor off....Then pull a plug and read it....This is the only way to get a good reading on a plug</TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry if I wasnt clear, im not trying to get a full throttl diagnosis. I have already done this when it was being tuned and everything was all good. What I was trying to figure out initially is what all the crap was on the plug, I think it has been determined to be crap in my fuel and additives.

Now im just wondering why there seems to be some inconsistency between the cylinders.

When they are fresh and I do a full throttle pull and pull them they all seem the same.

Basically I am just trying to make sure there is nothing horribly wrong here.

Joseph Davis

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by heretolearnandteach &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Now im just wondering why there seems to be some inconsistency between the cylinders.</TD></TR></TABLE>

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by heretolearnandteach &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">When they are fresh and I do a full throttle pull and pull them they all seem the same.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Unless your EMS has individual cylinder trims vs load 2D tables, none I am aware of do, there is nothing you can do about this. Further, since the very slight unbalance between cylinders at what is essentially a no load situation (compared to the boost event) is meaninglyess and will hurt nothing.