airmaxbri

Hello,

I have a EG hb with a JDM b16a.


GOALS-- the highest torque at the earliest RPM possible with a GT28rs turbo. I don't care about peak HP.

This car will be daily street driven on 94 octane. It must be streetable and very reliable. Will never be tracked.

Reason? Everybody builds for high hp, I want something that feels different.

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For this high torque street killer here's what I'm thinkin:

<U>Fully built block:</U>

**Sleeved (dart or benson or AEBS) 84mm**
Eagle rods
**9.5CR** wiseco pistons

<U>B16a2 Head:</U>
titanium retainers,
dual valve springs,
**CTR camshafts**,

Street port,
3 angle valve job


<U>Turbo:</U>

gt28rs,
15-16psi, or at 75% efficiency for this turbo

**RAMHorn or equal Length manifold**


<U>Fuel Mgmt:</U> hondata s300


<U>Drive train:</U> quaife, ATS long 1st gear, stock 4.4 final drive, axels rated to 360-400tq.
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VARIABLES:
**above are variables**
As well as these major ones:
1. B18c block - (redline after above build up, est. 8600-8800 1.9L with 84mm bore)
2. b16 block -(redline after above build up, est. 9000-9200 1.7 with 84mm bore)
3. Housing and trim for gt28rs or another turbo altogether.

<U>My question is</U>, with the above set up and variables and my given goal of FAST SPOOLING KILLER TORQUE,
<U>1. what else can I add to this mix to make it better?</U> Methanol/ water injection, nitrous intercooler spray etc OR ANY SUGGESTION PERIOD, type of manifold etc.
<U>2.what block should I use?</U>

--And I am not some stupid 19 year old kid with no money and a turbo B series wetdream--

I searched, but I could not find a comparable build to what I want.

Thanks
Brian

1Quikgsr

you want to stay withing 280-350whp if money is an issue i would just do it on stock internals.. that power will usualy give you around 180-220 tq thats plenty, no need to sleeve the block. Whats the point of having all that torque and not putting it to the ground?

airmaxbri

Thanks for the reply,

This is my only car, and it will be driven 60 miles a day, wouldn't sleeving the block help with reliability?

Is this just a stupid idea altogether for a daily driver?

Thanks
Brian

Schister66

a ramhorn or longer EL manifold will slow spool and therefore reduce low end torque. I would go with something like a shorty ramhorn or even a log.

I think sleeving is a good idea because more displacement is going to help spool along nicely....it doesnt hurt that your engine will be bulletproof though. To some people it may sound stupid that you're building the hell out of an engine for less than 400whp, but i say go for it....that's going to be a mean street car!!

One of your variables was the B18c vs B16a block choice. If you're going for a torque monster, you're going to want more displacement. The B18c would be the better choice there regardless of the estimated redline difference. Another thing that will help you make more low end would be a switch to the LS crank or an Eagle crank (if you have the money)

Search Tony The Tiger's setup....he has one much like you're building.

anton_

how about a heavy flywheel? maybe stupid but just an ide

liam821

You will make more low end torque with a larger block, ie 84mm ls/b20 block. It will spool the turbo faster and just make more power everywhere.

liam

93supercoupe

84mm LS block and b16 head with a 28r would be too much torque for the street.

wich is what u want correct?

liam821

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 93supercoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">84mm LS block and b16 head with a 28r would be too much torque for the street.

wich is what u want correct?
</TD></TR></TABLE>

You can never have too much torque. Its alot easier to lower the torque then increase it. With a smart boost controller you can limit boost in each gear to limit tire slip - there is also traction control.

liam

airmaxbri

your idea is based on a heavier flywheel storing torque, correct?

I have a fidanza ultralight flywheel 7.5lbs or 8lbs. Will this flywheel hurt low end torque?

Thanks

batboyvaj

find my post with my setup.

0PSI2HI

Smaller runner manifold. We use 1.25" sch 10 runners for a few applications where spool and mid range torque is a concern. Only problem w/ this in fwd is traction is going to be an even bigger issue.

93supercoupe

flywheels dont make or break torque, but lighter ones will will promote bogging.

If ur good at controlling it however, u can use it to ur advantage for wheel spin control.

ExVtec

You will regret all that tq down low = tire shredder...

aka srt4.

DC2WhiteBoy2103

If your daily driving it..........i dont care what anyone says..........you should sleeve it ! I saw a couple posts saying you shouldnt ! It would probley be in your best interest !

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

the Kooks-style or top mount manifolds are definately out of the question if the goal is to have more torque and usable powerband. The stroke of the powerplant is even more important than the bore. simply going to 84mm is not going to change much for the torque amount of the car, especially on a "torqueless wonder" of the b16 engine. Since you cannot put an LS crank in a B16 Engine, look to a different block, i.e. and empty GS-R and use an LS/B20 Crank with slightly higher compression pistons, and you can even go so far as an uprated final drive.

airmaxbri

torque = fun

airmaxbri

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Schister66 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">a ramhorn or longer EL manifold will slow spool and therefore reduce low end torque. I would go with something like a shorty ramhorn or even a log.

I think sleeving is a good idea because more displacement is going to help spool along nicely....it doesnt hurt that your engine will be bulletproof though. To some people it may sound stupid that you're building the hell out of an engine for less than 400whp, but i say go for it....that's going to be a mean street car!!

One of your variables was the B18c vs B16a block choice. If you're going for a torque monster, you're going to want more displacement. The B18c would be the better choice there regardless of the estimated redline difference. Another thing that will help you make more low end would be a switch to the LS crank or an Eagle crank (if you have the money)

Search Tony The Tiger's setup....he has one much like you're building. </TD></TR></TABLE>

any thoughts on the Love fab mini me EQ? You know anybody running this manifold on gt28rs or 2871r?

"00"R

it's a great theory that you have about building a fun to drive high torque engine. I have a few suggestions for you though. I'll start with sleeveing, another great thoery, the problem is that you can open yourself up to a more unreliable engine by doing, this sinking sleeves, over heating, and many more. I friend built an engine, had it sleeved and from then on couldn't get it to seal a head gasket, all sighns led to a bad sleeve job. As far as compression I would go with something higher, like 10.5:1, reason being that with a 28rs your probably not gonna make any more than 350whp so with a good tune you should be just fine and still have lots of tourque. You might consider a 2871 though, in which case I would build it exactly how you already said and that should make a bunch of power. I have a b18c5 stock block and head with a 28rs and its lots of fun. As said before A log or some type of short runner mani would be best. Also higher compression will allow you to run a lower amount of boost which should reach pull boost sooner.

Also I have a love fab mini-me eq, in my garage not on my car. I took it off because of how low it puts to turbo. It makes it impossible to make a really good return line. But it spooled well, made good power and never cracked.

airmaxbri

Hey man,

I would really like to know the shortcomings of this manifold. I am about to buy one. Is it worth the $700 bucks? What kind of problems with the oil return line?

Right now , here's my plan: Stock b16, lovefab mini me eq, gt2871r, quaife lsd.

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by "00"R &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">it's a great theory that you have about building a fun to drive high torque engine. I have a few suggestions for you though. I'll start with sleeveing, another great thoery, the problem is that you can open yourself up to a more unreliable engine by doing, this sinking sleeves, over heating, and many more. I friend built an engine, had it sleeved and from then on couldn't get it to seal a head gasket, all sighns led to a bad sleeve job. As far as compression I would go with something higher, like 10.5:1, reason being that with a 28rs your probably not gonna make any more than 350whp so with a good tune you should be just fine and still have lots of tourque. You might consider a 2871 though, in which case I would build it exactly how you already said and that should make a bunch of power. I have a b18c5 stock block and head with a 28rs and its lots of fun. As said before A log or some type of short runner mani would be best. Also higher compression will allow you to run a lower amount of boost which should reach pull boost sooner.

Also I have a love fab mini-me eq, in my garage not on my car. I took it off because of how low it puts to turbo. It makes it impossible to make a really good return line. But it spooled well, made good power and never cracked.</TD></TR></TABLE>

batboyvaj

for your goals i think a 28rs would suit you better

bootlegcivic

I would worry more about the bottom end for torque. Get a B20 or B18A/B or at least a crank from them to put into the gsr(longer stroke = more torque). B16 is not for you it has the stroke of a 10 year old and you don't need to sleeve the block either as long as you tune it correctly. I made 300whp and 200wtq out of a b16B(CTR=10.8: compression) with GT28RS @10psi and have been daily driving for awhile now. 30-100 miles a day and I also track the car. Basic setup with a log manifold would work perfect for you. Find out what diameter piping makes more torque also (ie. down pipe, intercooler piping, exhaust, intake manifold, exhaust manifold)

Just my $0.02


Sell your b16a short block and get an ls/vtec kit and ls or b20 short block

"00"R

that manifold is not a bad manifold at all, it spools well and made great power on my setup, but if you look at a good log mani or even a ram horn, the desighn is so that it places the turbo in a much hihger position which allows for positive drain back to the oil pan, i had nohting but problems with building a perfect drain line, no matter what i did there was always part of the return line running horizontal. I had my ball bearing turbo rebuilt three times before i got a ramhorn, and now the turbo is draining great, no smoke at all. But like i said before, the mini-me eq is not a bad manifold at all, depending on what turbo you use. I just believe strongly that it is very important to the lifespan and performance of your turbo that you have a nearly perfect return line. This is also even more true with a bb turbo. But as a matter of fact, if your hell bent on the mini-me eq I'll sell you mine, and i also have a gt28rs I'll sell.

THEDirtyDseriesWOOT

if u want tQ turbo a d-series.. its a stroker motor already

with 280 whp i made 256 tq 57 trim log mani
350 whp i made 289 tq 57 trim log mani
403 whp i made 326 tq gt30R topmount

wilham320

iTrader: (1)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by THEDirtyDseriesWOOT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if u want tQ turbo a d-series.. its a stroker motor already
</TD></TR></TABLE>

yep....

B16A greddy 18g kit @ 12 psi VS D16Y8 greddy 15g kit @ 12 psi

airmaxbri

sweet numbers

I never knew a d-series could be that deadly. . . .
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by THEDirtyDseriesWOOT &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if u want tQ turbo a d-series.. its a stroker motor already

with 280 whp i made 256 tq 57 trim log mani
350 whp i made 289 tq 57 trim log mani
403 whp i made 326 tq gt30R topmount
</TD></TR></TABLE>