dreweg

Well this may be a little long as I'm going to try and explain everything I
can about my problem. BTW I do have an SRT-4 but I didnt get a solid answer
on srtforums and I know you guys know what you're talkin about for the most
part over here on HT. Anyway it all happened a few weeks back when I was
driving home from work on a cool night(maybe 60ish). I wanted to get on it a
little to feel how strong it was since I havent rasised too much hell latley.
In 3rd gear at about 3000 rpms I punch it and the car TAKES off..BAM 17psi
pulling hard then the boost skyrockets and burries the boost guage which is
WELL over 20psi and the computer was pulling timing like crazy and it sounded
like a really bassy, low fart. I'm assuming my wastegate actuator had gotten
stuck. I got really scared and took it easy for the rest of the trip. I get
home and let it time down and pop the hood and I see a milky substance in the
catch can. I talked to a friend (sceraxn on here) and he told me it's
possible I blew my headgasket. I told him I didnt see any leaks from the
outside but then again it could be internal. On the way to school the next
morning the car drove fine....didnt overheat or act different or anything. I
watched the temp guage VERY closely and it acted EXACTLY the same as normal.
I could tell when the thermostat would kick in as usual and then when it
would cut off. It was staying in the regular temp range. Anyway it acted
totally normal for a few days and thought the head might have lifted a little
under the spike so i decided to get on it a little to see what would happen.
Well lets just say the wastagate actuator was still stuck but i didnt give it
time to hit over 19psi. I went and took the WGA off to inspect it and
everything was fine. Here's where things start goin nuts. I installed the
WGA just like I did and I only get about 8psi with the same adjustment as
before. The WGA is adjustable BTW. Well I turn the nut a little more....8.5
psi...turn it a little more and 9 psi....then 10....then 10.5. Now im
scratching my head wondering what's up with it so I CRANK that bitch around
to where i finally get 15 psi initially....then at about 3500-4000rpms it
rised to 19 then drops back to 13-14 at redline. Before the crazy spike I
was hitting a solid 17-18 and holding then dropping to around 13-14 at
redline. So Im getting a 15,19,14 boost pattern now. Also I'm still gettin
a little coolant mixed in with the oil in my catch can after boosting. One other odd thing is that my BOV will now sound like it's fluttering at around 10psi with
partial throttle. If i got WOT it's fine and doesnt leak but at partial
throttle boost it flutters. What im THINKING is that I may have
stretched/weakened my head studs and it's causing the head to lift under
boost and/or my headgasket is f-ed. Does this sound right? Again I
apologize for the really long post but I need some help and dont have money
to drop for the dealer to tear it apart and tell me what's wrong. So I now have the WGA adjusted 10 times more than it used to be and I'm still not getting my desired results, odd boost pattern, BOV flutter with partial throttle boost and milky substance in my catch can. I'm NOT noticing any coolant level change either. I added some a while back but the level hasnt changed since the incident. The turbo spools just as fast as it ever did and I'm not putting out any white smoke. Everything seems normal except for what i stated. The car runs, sounds and drives fine but the performance aspect of it isnt what it used to be as the boost is being really odd. The car is fairly modded with the exception of a larger turbo or
nitrous so i have no warranty. If I'm correct about the problem or if you
guys think so too I plan on getting a new HG with some ARP head studs and
hopefully that will cure my problem. I couldnt think of any other thing that
would cause the odd boost and coolant mixed in with the oil. The car "seems"
to pull like it should for the amount of boost im running. I REALLY
appriciate any help from you all!!! BTW I did post this in the Tech forum but a friend told me I would probably get help in here. Thanks again.

Andrew

sCeRaXn

Yea this **** has me stumped too. I personally think that its the head lifting under boost. The car still pulls like a raped ape...but it just feels like it should have more in it. Right after he put on the WGA it was stupid fast...he could burn off the tires by just punching it in second. But now it just seems like its pulling too much timing or something. I know that alot of people dont like other cars coming in here asking for help...but just think of it this way...the faster we get this fixed the sooner i can start working on my broken down honda

ms1motorsports

Compression and leak down test the motor. You will then find out if a blown headgasket is your problem. As for stretched studs you'll have to pull the head and measure. Just go ARP and be done with it IMO. Good luck.

sCeRaXn

were planning on doing a compression test this weekend...but i dont think that itll show us anything since the head only seems to be lifting under boost. We dont really have the correct equipment for a leakdown but ill see if we can make one of those homemade testers that ive read about. And were trying everything in our power to fix it without taking the head off....but i dont think thats gonna happen.

Sean

Finest

While it does seem like a lifting head (I've ran into these a few times with the SOHC guys I've helped tuned), I would look into the boost problem first. A common problem with internal wastegates is the flapper itself. Double check if there's not a crack around the flapper area, which could induce boost creep. What other exhaust mods do you have? 3" downpipe/cat/exhaust?

Also, with the newer FI cars out today, your ECU may have logged that last overboost and switched over to a "limp mode" or safer fuel/ignition map? Reset the ecu and see if it improves?

sCeRaXn

He has a 3" o2 housing/dp/and dump exhaust without a cat or muffler. I dont know why but most srt4's boost levels drop around redline...i dont think hes the only one that experiences this. I think that the turbo is jsut too small to keep it at 19psi at redline . Yea i was going to tell him to reset his ecu when we work on it tomorrow. Keep the help coming

Finest

What size turbo is that anyways? My DSM's 14b does the same thing, I have it up to about 18psi, it'll drop to 15 @ redline. Just ran out of efficiency @ 6-7k rpms.

If you want to be really **** about it, I'd break it down and check all clearances. Make sure the head's not warped otherwise mill it, throw in a new gasket and ARP it down tight. At least I'd sleep better at night knowing it's all sealed up....I'll be sleeping on a cardboard box, but hey at least I'll be sleeping good!

stackz

check the dipstick and see if the oil in the pan is milky. If so...dont drive the car anymore, you're probably screwing up rotating assembly bearings as it is.

low dollar way to check headgasket failure is to pop off the radiator cap when the engine is cold and fill COMPLETELY to the top as much as you can. then crank the motor. If water goes shooting out all over or bubbles violently or what not then your head gasket is blown....because all the compression in the cylinders is being forced into the waterjackets, duh.

sounds like you goofed something with the wastegate somewhere when you were hooking it back up or what not. maybe tore the internal diaphram in it. take it back off and push it in together and put your finger over the hole and let go to see if it releases completely out again. If it does, the diaphram is probably torn. If it has a little suction still to after movement is stopped then it's still holding vacuum and is good.

Finest

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by stackz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">low dollar way to check headgasket failure is to pop off the radiator cap when the engine is cold and fill COMPLETELY to the top as much as you can. then crank the motor. If water goes shooting out all over or bubbles violently or what not then your head gasket is blown....because all the compression in the cylinders is being forced into the waterjackets, duh.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Holy Dejavu! That's exactly what happened last weekend when I was tuning a SOHC for about 10psi. Got it back to the shop and filled it back up, cranked it and WHOOSH! Coolant all over my clothes and shoes. BTW, coolant tastes just like it smells.

Boltz

first of all if the oil is milky your first step should be an oil change. You could blow that thing up in a second if you lose lubrication. If after the oil change it goes back to milky white, dont drive it until you fix the problem or else youre asking for trouble


EDIT: Try making paragraphs so people can actually read it. I bet at least half of the people that click on this thread dont read it because it is so poorly organized

Finest

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Boltz &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">EDIT: Try making paragraphs so people can actually read it. I bet at least half of the people that click on this thread dont read it because it is so poorly organized</TD></TR></TABLE>

LOL! It was hard, but I made myself read it!

sCeRaXn

Yea hes already changed the oil...he said that there wasnt anything in it. So i know it isnt the headgasket.

I guess he was in a hurry and didnt feel like making paragraphs. Its a little hard to read but youll get over it

sCeRaXn

Nobody has any guesses as to what this might be?

B18C1CYA

well i dont think you are lifting your head at all, if you lifted your head your coolant over flow would have volcanoed at any thing pas 14psi and you would know it, your temp cage would climb up very quickly while in boost. also look at the underside of the oil cap and see if it is milky, and also your coolant level would change with the blown h/g or lifting the head. the stuff in the catch can is condensation, the hot oil vapors condenses in the can and get traped there , i think your boost problem has some thing to do with the wasteagte and i would clear the codes in your ecu also, i hope this helps you out

sCeRaXn

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18C1CYA &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">well i dont think you are lifting your head at all, if you lifted your head your coolant over flow would have volcanoed at any thing pas 14psi and you would know it, your temp cage would climb up very quickly while in boost. also look at the underside of the oil cap and see if it is milky, and also your coolant level would change with the blown h/g or lifting the head. the stuff in the catch can is condensation, the hot oil vapors condenses in the can and get traped there , i think your boost problem has some thing to do with the wasteagte and i would clear the codes in your ecu also, i hope this helps you out </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thanks alot...you made a bunch of good points there. I never even thought about that substance being caused by condensation...but it makes sense.

B18C1CYA

i get condensation in mine also its just anormal thing that happens, the gases are a lot hotter than the catch can will ever get

GLHS895

did you use mopar head studs? the mopar studs are known for being weaksauce among the turbo dodge community. the only worthwhile mopar stud kit is for the hemi's, and obviously those wont work.

i could totally see the head lifting under boost. especially if you've got coolant in the oil catch can.

sCeRaXn

His headstuds are stock. I think hes gonna try to get some arp's if he has to take the head off.

BTW-ive always wondered how the old shelby chargers ran. What do they run in the 1/4 stock...and how well do they respond to mods?

dreweg

Sorry about all the run-on's...I was in a hurry for work. Anyway I took the WGA off and put it back on a total of 3 times to make sure everything was working properly and it was. I've never noticed any milky substance before this happened. I mean it looks like someone jizzed all in the catch can and put some oil with it. I will be putting the stock WGA back on tomorrow to see if that helps and hook it back up to the ECU so i SHOULD get about 14-15psi and dropping to around 12-13 at redline. Thank you ALL for every response because out of a total of 3 days I've gotten like 5 replies on srtforums. Keep any info comming!

sCeRaXn

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dreweg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Thank you ALL for every response because out of a total of 3 days I've gotten like 5 replies on srtforums. Keep any info comming!</TD></TR></TABLE>

All those **** on srtforums are ricers anyway . Just listen to the pros over here on HT...theyll straighten you out. Besides you belong over here now....since you have that MaD tIiTe JdM bOv Yo!!!

GLHS895

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sCeRaXn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">His headstuds are stock. I think hes gonna try to get some arp's if he has to take the head off.

BTW-ive always wondered how the old shelby chargers ran. What do they run in the 1/4 stock...and how well do they respond to mods?</TD></TR></TABLE>

they're coming with headstuds stock nowadays? back in my day we had bolts!

a regular shelby charger = mid/high 15's. non intercooled, very inefficient intake setup... etc.

shelby charger GLHS = 14.8 as tested by chrysler. but it's got an intercooler and other goodies.

mods-wise they respond just as well as any other turbo car. big exhaust + mbc = fun.

mrspeaker

Yeah..definetly get the arp headstuds,,

pngfolife

Part throttle BOV chatter is from too high of a pressure differential between the charge pipe and the intake manifold. Boost production at part throttle may be too high with your WGA setting. If you are losing compression from your head lifting under boost, you will see a corresponding loss in boost pressure. At 10 psi and part throttle, the head is not lifting and the WGA is making more boost than your motor is taking causing the BOV chatter. When you go WOT and start to make power, the head lifts enough that you lose compression, and total boost drops. Lower the boost until you don't see any symptoms of the head lifting.

stackz

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sCeRaXn &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yea hes already changed the oil...he said that there wasnt anything in it. So i know it isnt the headgasket.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

um, just because the oil isnt milky doesnt mean it cant be a blown head gasket. Theres more than one way to blow a gasket. You can blow into a water passage, blow out an edge of the block, blow between cylinders, blow into a bolt passage, etc, etc.

I'd still try the radiator cap thing and then go rent a compression tool from autozone so you can cross hg off the list once and for all.

I've got an escort with a blown hg that the only thing it does different from normal is accelerate slower from 0-40 when in closed loop, nothing else, still runs cool, good oil, great mileage, overall chick magnet

HybridKOOP

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by dreweg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I mean it looks like someone jizzed all in the catch can and put some oil with it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Priceless.