_Cyclone_

I'm starting this thread because it's more specific to my problem, with an accurate topic title as well. Today during tuning sessions, my D16Y8 experienced what I now know to be head lift. I simply thought I had blown the head gasket, but the car is still completly drivable. It leaks boost into the water jackets causing an excessive amount of air pressure in the cooling system, causing my overflow tank to spew coolant out the top during boost. This happens at 9psi, so I took it down to 6psi for now (minimum) so I could drive it.

I'm going to order a set of ARP headstuds tomorrow, and there's some other items I want to get as well. I'm going to pick up a GE block guard from the same place (lightningmotorsports.com) and throw it in at the same time to prevent possible sleevewalking.

My question is this: Should I go with an OEM gasket... or get the GE headgasket? Right now personally' I'm leaning toward OEM. Comments/advice are always welcome as well.

EDIT: Problem solved.





Modified by CycloneBlue_1.6EL at 4:39 AM 5/29/2005

_Cyclone_

CRXDrew

OEM all the way. And add a lil copper spray for fun. . OEM y8 gaskets r cheap neway.

Clone

Its not the head gasket or the head bolts.Its your ignition timing causing this.Too much pressure at the wrong time streches head bolts and lifts heads causing head gasket failure.You probably need to retard the timing a bit more.Set the distributor at stock timing specs and use something like uberdata to control ignition timing.
Yeah use oem head gaskets.I buy cheap complete b16 vtec overhaul kits for $95 I throw away the cheap head gasket and I buy an oem head gasket.

DRIVENRacing

ouch...

_Cyclone_

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Clone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its not the head gasket or the head bolts.Its your ignition timing causing this.Too much pressure at the wrong time streches head bolts and lifts heads causing head gasket failure.You probably need to retard the timing a bit more.Set the distributor at stock timing specs and use something like uberdata to control ignition timing.
Yeah use oem head gaskets.I buy cheap complete b16 vtec overhaul kits for $95 I throw away the cheap head gasket and I buy an oem head gasket.</TD></TR></TABLE>

I use the Hondata S200b for management, and it was just tuned yesterday byPayl Neethling, one of the best tuners in Canada. He's tuned over 400 turbo Honda setups, most of them D's... I think he knows where to set the timing. D-series engines are known for head lift due to the weak OEM studs that come with our engines. ARP studs will help this problem greatly. I am for sure getting an OEM gasket, will probably copper spray it too.

Click the link in my sig if you want to see the dyno pics and vids. They're right at the top of the first post in the thread.

kleefton

This is a common problem with the d series engines.

My b16 did this too. It turned out the block was not decked properly.

EJ1 wilcox

I wouldn't bother with the Golden Eagle head gasket. Just get OEM or an OEM quality head gasket.

I have a Beck/Arnley MLS head gasket in my car and it's holding together just fine.

Just make sure you tighten those ARPs down good and tight!

pushinlsteg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Clone &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Its not the head gasket or the head bolts.Its your ignition timing causing this.Too much pressure at the wrong time streches head bolts and lifts heads causing head gasket failure.You probably need to retard the timing a bit more.Set the distributor at stock timing specs and use something like uberdata to control ignition timing.
Yeah use oem head gaskets.I buy cheap complete b16 vtec overhaul kits for $95 I throw away the cheap head gasket and I buy an oem head gasket.</TD></TR></TABLE>

My question is this: Should I go with an OEM gasket... or get the GE headgasket? Right now personally' I'm leaning toward OEM. Comments/advice are always welcome as well.[/QUOTE]


yeah don't listen to this guy ^

lol just get some ARP head studs and an OEM head gasket you should be fine, I've read alot about heads lifting under boost. the ARP studs usually solve it.

JDMCRX

iTrader: (2)

Yeah its the small dinky OEM head studs and the cyl twisting. Get a block gaurd and OEM gasket and NO COPPER SPRAY and ARPs and torque them down the ELSPOOLJDMCRX way. and u will not have any probs

Highway tested and true

nonvtecD

It doesn't all have to do with "headlift". The ignition argument has some good points. I re-torqued my stock head bolts on my old b7 turbo 3 times and ran it for 6 months at 10 psi with no "headlift" problems. Right now I am running my y7 at 9 psi with stock bolts and have yet to have a problem. My timing is very conservative at .9 degrees retard per lb of boost.

pushinlsteg

okay good for you and your head bolts that are still in spec and arn't warped or twisted....

its just one of those things


"DRAG manifolds creep!!!"

Sorry...mine doesn't, good for you and you knowing what order to torque your head bolts

for other people, get ARP.

Rtype16

A couple of things I would suggest. Make sure the block has been decked correctly. Always use new head bolts. Never re-use old ones. I would also suggest to use a OEM head gasket always new also and coat with copper coat. Another thing you may want to do with the ARP or the Honda bolts is to heat cycle the motor and than re-torque them again.

Clone

I did not know that D16 head bolts were weak cause I deal in B motors.I do know that on any motor if the problem is the ignition timming causing the headlifting the threads in the block can get ripped out ARP or not. I use ARP everything is my motors cause it is cheap insurance.So go for it.By the way DO NOT USE copper spray.Copper weeps coolant know fact.It is good for drag cars if your always changing heads or taking them off because it creates a good seal and conducts heat great but doesnt seal coolant well.If copper head gaskets where so great Honda would have made them outta copper but they know better.Copper exhaust gaskets on the other hand are great.

97BLACKCIVIC

I've never had headlift, so cant really help on that but from what it sounds like go with arp head bolts. And go with oem head gasket.

_Cyclone_

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by JDMCRX &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Yeah its the small dinky OEM head studs and the cyl twisting. Get a block gaurd and OEM gasket and NO COPPER SPRAY and ARPs and torque them down the ELSPOOLJDMCRX way. and u will not have any probs

Highway tested and true </TD></TR></TABLE>

Thats's what I figured. I'm looking forward to learning the "ELSPOOLJDMCRX" way of tightening the head down. I'm going to order the parts from lightning and Honda of course.

spoolingb20

good info on the copper spray

kleefton

This is a common problem with the d series engines.

My b16 did this too. It turned out the block was not decked properly.

_Cyclone_

Well the 5 hour drive too Ottawa sucked ***, it's not fun bleeding your cooling system on the side of the highway. I've got air leaking into the water jackets while I'm in vacuum too... I don't even have to be boosting. This sucks, gotta do that soon.

DeadVet

sounds like you have a different problem than the normal d series head lifting issue. All of the heads i have seen lift only lift under boost and it pushes coolant out of the overflow tank but the car never overheats or has any other problems except when under boost. I had my had lift on my built z6 1 week after i installed a hybrid turbo. My tuner lowered the timing to 15.75 degrees at full boost and i torqued the head studs to 75lbs after i changed the headgasket and havent had a problem in 4 months.

My tuner just put together almost exactly the same engine and had his head lift just about a week after he put the motor together, he is running just about the same timing as me but is torquing his arps to like 3 lbs over spec.

So my opinion is its either the headstuds arent being torqued enough or the sleeves are infact shifting and i have been damn luck thus far to have my head lift again.

_Cyclone_

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 1TurboHatch &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">So my opinion is its either the headstuds arent being torqued enough or the sleeves are infact shifting and i have been damn luck thus far to have my head lift again.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Yeah I'm sure the headgasket is completly blown now because it's leaking during highway driving. I was driving today in the city and it didn't cause me any problems. I'm going to get the ARP's, new OEM headgasket and the GE blockguard to eliminate the possibility of sleevewalking. I'll torque the ARP's down to around 70 and I'll be golden.

C.R.E.A.M.*562*

_Cyclone_

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 94dc-2*562* &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> </TD></TR></TABLE>

okay...

_Cyclone_

Problem solved... see above.

rudebwoy

iTrader: (1)

what copper spray ya'll use? is it the same spray the use for brakes, or anti seize, I have a can but it dont dry so I want to know if its the same type