Having a shop build the motor ... Why?
10-24-2006, 03:03 PM
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Having a shop build the motor ... Why?
I've noticed some people who are really good at what they do had their engines built (at least in part) by a shop (other than their own if they have their own). I understand the "customer comes first, still have to make money" aspect as far as offering the engine building service from your own shop.
For those who had it built, was it because of:
a) Time constraints, needed relatively quick turnaround to do more racing/less building
b) Preferred the experience of another shop... due to their customers' racing successes, etc.
c) Insufficient know-how
d) Built engine part of sponsorship deal in one way or another, so why not take advantage of it
As far as had it built, I mean 99% of the build. Obviously if you do most of the work yourself but don't have a machine to do certain jobs and can't justify 1000s of dollars on a machine for a one-time deal so you go to a machine shop, that doesn't count as "shop-built."
For those who had it built, was it because of:
a) Time constraints, needed relatively quick turnaround to do more racing/less building
b) Preferred the experience of another shop... due to their customers' racing successes, etc.
c) Insufficient know-how
d) Built engine part of sponsorship deal in one way or another, so why not take advantage of it
As far as had it built, I mean 99% of the build. Obviously if you do most of the work yourself but don't have a machine to do certain jobs and can't justify 1000s of dollars on a machine for a one-time deal so you go to a machine shop, that doesn't count as "shop-built."
10-24-2006, 05:49 PM
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Re: Having a shop build the motor ... Why? (Axle)
C - Not personally speaking .. But I think most do it because lack of know-how..
Modified by TheWickedOne at 10:05 PM 10/24/2006
Modified by TheWickedOne at 10:05 PM 10/24/2006
10-24-2006, 06:13 PM
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Re: Having a shop build the motor ... Why? (WHITFIELD-TUNED)
The way I see it is, like anyone who specializes in a certain type of skill, they have the most experience more than anyone.
If thats all that they do, they see the many ways you can make the product better. Whether its in the measurements, the materials used, the brands used, quality of precision tools, etc. Thats what you are paying the specialist for.
You cannot DEVALUE a person's work by lowballing on the labor. If the person is good, you are paying good money for an experienced person doing the work.
If thats all that they do, they see the many ways you can make the product better. Whether its in the measurements, the materials used, the brands used, quality of precision tools, etc. Thats what you are paying the specialist for.
You cannot DEVALUE a person's work by lowballing on the labor. If the person is good, you are paying good money for an experienced person doing the work.
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10-24-2006, 11:56 PM
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Re: Having a shop build the motor ... Why? (V-SPEC 1)
SOMETHING else people need to throw into perspective is this...
Now when it comes to building engines, Ive built several and they have seen 500-550whp. I even tuned/ran 400whp daily on a COMPETELY STOCK GSR engine(t3/t67 h.o., etc, etc...@12psi) and it was my daily driver for a while.
This is what I want to stress to people out there. When it comes to the motor build I'm currently doing and it will be pushing upwards of 850whp...THEN I leave the "building/assembling" to the guys that have the proper equipment and proper experience building 800whp engines! When 20+ thousand dollars is on the line then thats when I draw my line. NOW, if I had all the proper equipment and a damn car/machine shop in my backyard then sure I would build my own engine without a DOUBT!
The reason I had someone assemble/build my longblock was because 1 I didnt have the time and 2 I didnt have the proper equipment. Cortney Green is doing the work for me and he has been a GREAT help all this time. Its been over a year in this build and its getting really close to being finished finally! Long time waiting but no big deal. Next season is going to be a BLAST!
Well...thats my 2 cents worth...
Modified by cuin9sec at 1:10 AM 10/25/2006
Now when it comes to building engines, Ive built several and they have seen 500-550whp. I even tuned/ran 400whp daily on a COMPETELY STOCK GSR engine(t3/t67 h.o., etc, etc...@12psi) and it was my daily driver for a while.
This is what I want to stress to people out there. When it comes to the motor build I'm currently doing and it will be pushing upwards of 850whp...THEN I leave the "building/assembling" to the guys that have the proper equipment and proper experience building 800whp engines! When 20+ thousand dollars is on the line then thats when I draw my line. NOW, if I had all the proper equipment and a damn car/machine shop in my backyard then sure I would build my own engine without a DOUBT!
The reason I had someone assemble/build my longblock was because 1 I didnt have the time and 2 I didnt have the proper equipment. Cortney Green is doing the work for me and he has been a GREAT help all this time. Its been over a year in this build and its getting really close to being finished finally! Long time waiting but no big deal. Next season is going to be a BLAST!
Well...thats my 2 cents worth...
Modified by cuin9sec at 1:10 AM 10/25/2006
10-25-2006, 12:58 AM
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Re: Having a shop build the motor ... Why? (cuin9sec)
very few people are great drivers AND great engine builders. Might as well focus on one, and let someone else focus on the other 
10-25-2006, 07:30 AM
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Re: Having a shop build the motor ... Why? (cuin9sec)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cuin9sec »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">SOMETHING else people need to throw into perspective is this...
Now when it comes to building engines, Ive built several and they have seen 500-550whp. I even tuned/ran 400whp daily on a COMPETELY STOCK GSR engine(t3/t67 h.o., etc, etc...@12psi) and it was my daily driver for a while.
This is what I want to stress to people out there. When it comes to the motor build I'm currently doing and it will be pushing upwards of 850whp...THEN I leave the "building/assembling" to the guys that have the proper equipment and proper experience building 800whp engines! When 20+ thousand dollars is on the line then thats when I draw my line. NOW, if I had all the proper equipment and a damn car/machine shop in my backyard then sure I would build my own engine without a DOUBT!
The reason I had someone assemble/build my longblock was because 1 I didnt have the time and 2 I didnt have the proper equipment. Cortney Green is doing the work for me and he has been a GREAT help all this time. Its been over a year in this build and its getting really close to being finished finally! Long time waiting but no big deal. Next season is going to be a BLAST!
Well...thats my 2 cents worth...
Modified by cuin9sec at 1:10 AM 10/25/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
while i completely understand where your coming from,
id like to hear someone chime in on what is the difference between a 550hp and a 850 hp build.
the components are all the same (unless you get custom/one off parts)
a clearance is a clearance.
only thing i can see different is the person building the motor may know which clearances work best.
not discounting any work that Courtney Green does, because i know he does great work, just asking
i think the reason most people have them built is lack of knowledge.
id rather show someone how to build a motor (ie, build the motor with a customer so he learnes) then to build the motor and drop it off.
but then again, building motors does not feed my family, so maybe my perspective is off.
Now when it comes to building engines, Ive built several and they have seen 500-550whp. I even tuned/ran 400whp daily on a COMPETELY STOCK GSR engine(t3/t67 h.o., etc, etc...@12psi) and it was my daily driver for a while.
This is what I want to stress to people out there. When it comes to the motor build I'm currently doing and it will be pushing upwards of 850whp...THEN I leave the "building/assembling" to the guys that have the proper equipment and proper experience building 800whp engines! When 20+ thousand dollars is on the line then thats when I draw my line. NOW, if I had all the proper equipment and a damn car/machine shop in my backyard then sure I would build my own engine without a DOUBT!
The reason I had someone assemble/build my longblock was because 1 I didnt have the time and 2 I didnt have the proper equipment. Cortney Green is doing the work for me and he has been a GREAT help all this time. Its been over a year in this build and its getting really close to being finished finally! Long time waiting but no big deal. Next season is going to be a BLAST!
Well...thats my 2 cents worth...
Modified by cuin9sec at 1:10 AM 10/25/2006</TD></TR></TABLE>
while i completely understand where your coming from,
id like to hear someone chime in on what is the difference between a 550hp and a 850 hp build.
the components are all the same (unless you get custom/one off parts)
a clearance is a clearance.
only thing i can see different is the person building the motor may know which clearances work best.
not discounting any work that Courtney Green does, because i know he does great work, just asking
i think the reason most people have them built is lack of knowledge.
id rather show someone how to build a motor (ie, build the motor with a customer so he learnes) then to build the motor and drop it off.
but then again, building motors does not feed my family, so maybe my perspective is off.
10-25-2006, 08:12 AM
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Re: Having a shop build the motor ... Why? (ZeremiaH)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by ZeremiaH »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">C and A but mostly C.
cuin9sec do you have any pics of that killer setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just a couple older pics. The engine is fully assembled now...or should be VERY close to being. Heres a few pics of the engine and etc:
cuin9sec do you have any pics of that killer setup.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just a couple older pics. The engine is fully assembled now...or should be VERY close to being. Heres a few pics of the engine and etc:
10-25-2006, 08:30 AM
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Re: Having a shop build the motor ... Why? (Kelly.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">while i completely understand where your coming from,
id like to hear someone chime in on what is the difference between a 550hp and a 850 hp build.
the components are all the same (unless you get custom/one off parts)
a clearance is a clearance.
only thing i can see different is the person building the motor may know which clearances work best.
not discounting any work that Courtney Green does, because i know he does great work, just asking
i think the reason most people have them built is lack of knowledge.
id rather show someone how to build a motor (ie, build the motor with a customer so he learnes) then to build the motor and drop it off.
but then again, building motors does not feed my family, so maybe my perspective is off.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ive never built an 800+whp engine and when 20+grand is on the line then Ill leave it in the hands of an expert. I can give on instance...Full-Race(Geoff, good friend!) had his shortblock assembled by ERL remember? And I am sure it was just because he didnt have the time to build it himself or maybe he just wanted to have them do it...I dont know. But all I do know is SEVERAL people have their engines built for them for several different reasons and Im sure the list is a MILE long. Me personally, I didnt have the time and with that much money invested then I wanted someone with the PROPER experience/equipment to build it. Thats when I contacted Cort and he was like..."FINALLY youre going to build a REAL engine!" lolz!
Anyways, he is a VERY busy dude and a very great help to anyone. His H-T username is listed below in my sig if anyone on the west coast hasnt heard about him incase you need to contact him for anything. He is one of the BEST tuners on this side of the states and can build BADASS engines! I would have loved to have been able to build my own 800-900whp engine BUT I didnt have the time. And I knew Cort could help a brotha out!
Well, Im done...lol! But seriously on a side note. For all the peeps on the west coast...Cort is THE MAN! PM him for anything you need rather it be an engine build, clutches, pistons, rods, and just about practically anything you can think of he can help!
id like to hear someone chime in on what is the difference between a 550hp and a 850 hp build.
the components are all the same (unless you get custom/one off parts)
a clearance is a clearance.
only thing i can see different is the person building the motor may know which clearances work best.
not discounting any work that Courtney Green does, because i know he does great work, just asking
i think the reason most people have them built is lack of knowledge.
id rather show someone how to build a motor (ie, build the motor with a customer so he learnes) then to build the motor and drop it off.
but then again, building motors does not feed my family, so maybe my perspective is off.</TD></TR></TABLE>
Ive never built an 800+whp engine and when 20+grand is on the line then Ill leave it in the hands of an expert. I can give on instance...Full-Race(Geoff, good friend!) had his shortblock assembled by ERL remember? And I am sure it was just because he didnt have the time to build it himself or maybe he just wanted to have them do it...I dont know. But all I do know is SEVERAL people have their engines built for them for several different reasons and Im sure the list is a MILE long. Me personally, I didnt have the time and with that much money invested then I wanted someone with the PROPER experience/equipment to build it. Thats when I contacted Cort and he was like..."FINALLY youre going to build a REAL engine!" lolz!
Anyways, he is a VERY busy dude and a very great help to anyone. His H-T username is listed below in my sig if anyone on the west coast hasnt heard about him incase you need to contact him for anything. He is one of the BEST tuners on this side of the states and can build BADASS engines! I would have loved to have been able to build my own 800-900whp engine BUT I didnt have the time. And I knew Cort could help a brotha out!
Well, Im done...lol! But seriously on a side note. For all the peeps on the west coast...Cort is THE MAN! PM him for anything you need rather it be an engine build, clutches, pistons, rods, and just about practically anything you can think of he can help!
10-25-2006, 12:47 PM
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Re: Having a shop build the motor ... Why? (Kelly.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
while i completely understand where your coming from,
id like to hear someone chime in on what is the difference between a 550hp and a 850 hp build.
the components are all the same (unless you get custom/one off parts)
a clearance is a clearance.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just turn up the boost right? Making 850hp and making 850hp on the track all season long is are 2 different things. How many 850whp gasoline Hondas do you really think are out there? How many on turbo only...no spray? Everybody is always giving credit to this silly 42R thingy....but there is a LOT of horsepower that can be made with a good motor. I personally have never seen anyone build a real motor in their garage nor have I seen a real motor come out of a shop that does more than just build motors.
while i completely understand where your coming from,
id like to hear someone chime in on what is the difference between a 550hp and a 850 hp build.
the components are all the same (unless you get custom/one off parts)
a clearance is a clearance.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
Just turn up the boost right?
Making 850hp and making 850hp on the track all season long is are 2 different things. How many 850whp gasoline Hondas do you really think are out there? How many on turbo only...no spray? Everybody is always giving credit to this silly 42R thingy....but there is a LOT of horsepower that can be made with a good motor. I personally have never seen anyone build a real motor in their garage nor have I seen a real motor come out of a shop that does more than just build motors.
10-25-2006, 01:01 PM
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i had a buddy build a 715 whp motor in his garage. (corrected in CO)
all turbo.
i think my point is being missed.
im not taking anything away from any shop that specializes in building motors.
there is a reason that they stay in business, so im sure they are good.
im not asking for secrects, but i was hoping some one who only builds motors will respond.
but to answer your question:
i completely understand the i difference between making 850 (or any hp for that matter) and keeping it together. i know it all to well
i personally dont know anyone making that kinda of power, or i would have asked them the question personally
besides the builder, i think alot of credit should go to the tuner also
all turbo.
i think my point is being missed.
im not taking anything away from any shop that specializes in building motors.
there is a reason that they stay in business, so im sure they are good.
im not asking for secrects, but i was hoping some one who only builds motors will respond.
but to answer your question:
i completely understand the i difference between making 850 (or any hp for that matter) and keeping it together. i know it all to well
i personally dont know anyone making that kinda of power, or i would have asked them the question personally
besides the builder, i think alot of credit should go to the tuner also
10-25-2006, 01:29 PM
#20
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Re: (Kelly.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i had a buddy build a 715 whp motor in his garage. (corrected in CO)
all turbo.
i think my point is being missed.
im not taking anything away from any shop that specializes in building motors.
there is a reason that they stay in business, so im sure they are good.
im not asking for secrects, but i was hoping some one who only builds motors will respond.
but to answer your question:
i completely understand the i difference between making 850 (or any hp for that matter) and keeping it together. i know it all to well
i personally dont know anyone making that kinda of power, or i would have asked them the question personally
besides the builder, i think alot of credit should go to the tuner also</TD></TR></TABLE>
All the engines I built COULDVE withstood 700whp if I wouldve cranked up the boost...BUT the car was my daily driver and weekend warrior! So to speak! lol!
I think youre missing my point...theres a HUGE difference between 700whp to 900whp mark. Sure I can build an engine...I didnt have the time. I do have the equipment...BUT not the time! lol! I havent ventured past the 650whp mark. So therefore I CHOSE to let someone who has built engines that withstand 850+whp. THATS MY WHOLE POINT.
Sure you and practically ANYONE can build a damn engine BUT how long wil it last? All the motors I built lasted until I pushed the limits and BOOM...lol! I am just that way. But since the engine Im throwing in now is a LOT stronger then I wont have to worry about pushing the limits because 800whp will be PLENTY of power for me for a while. ACTUALLY more like starting at 650ish and bumping it up from there next season. I will tune it on the dyno and hit the limits and then back it back down to a conservative tune and then each race and more seat time I will throw more boost to it. Im not going to go out with a brand new setup and run 800hp...that would be stupid in MY OWN OPINION. Start out low then work your way up.
Anyways, back on subject...dont know how I got that bad off track! lmao!
all turbo.
i think my point is being missed.
im not taking anything away from any shop that specializes in building motors.
there is a reason that they stay in business, so im sure they are good.
im not asking for secrects, but i was hoping some one who only builds motors will respond.
but to answer your question:
i completely understand the i difference between making 850 (or any hp for that matter) and keeping it together. i know it all to well
i personally dont know anyone making that kinda of power, or i would have asked them the question personally
besides the builder, i think alot of credit should go to the tuner also
</TD></TR></TABLE>All the engines I built COULDVE withstood 700whp if I wouldve cranked up the boost...BUT the car was my daily driver and weekend warrior! So to speak! lol!
I think youre missing my point...theres a HUGE difference between 700whp to 900whp mark. Sure I can build an engine...I didnt have the time. I do have the equipment...BUT not the time! lol! I havent ventured past the 650whp mark. So therefore I CHOSE to let someone who has built engines that withstand 850+whp. THATS MY WHOLE POINT.
Sure you and practically ANYONE can build a damn engine BUT how long wil it last? All the motors I built lasted until I pushed the limits and BOOM...lol! I am just that way. But since the engine Im throwing in now is a LOT stronger then I wont have to worry about pushing the limits because 800whp will be PLENTY of power for me for a while. ACTUALLY more like starting at 650ish and bumping it up from there next season. I will tune it on the dyno and hit the limits and then back it back down to a conservative tune and then each race and more seat time I will throw more boost to it. Im not going to go out with a brand new setup and run 800hp...that would be stupid in MY OWN OPINION. Start out low then work your way up.
Anyways, back on subject...dont know how I got that bad off track! lmao!
10-25-2006, 01:33 PM
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understood.
id still like to see what a engine builder has to say. not that your opinion doesnt matter, because i totally understand what your saying.
again, not saying im better then xxx engine builder.
just wondering
id still like to see what a engine builder has to say. not that your opinion doesnt matter, because i totally understand what your saying.
again, not saying im better then xxx engine builder.
just wondering
10-25-2006, 02:10 PM
#22
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Re: (Kelly.)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Kelly. »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">understood.
id still like to see what a engine builder has to say. not that your opinion doesnt matter, because i totally understand what your saying.
again, not saying im better then xxx engine builder.
just wondering </TD></TR></TABLE>
id still like to see what a engine builder has to say. not that your opinion doesnt matter, because i totally understand what your saying.
again, not saying im better then xxx engine builder.
just wondering
</TD></TR></TABLE>
10-25-2006, 04:09 PM
#23
DixielandImports Please
Re: Having a shop build the motor ... Why? (Axle)
I had a guy build my motor cause I wanted the baddest all motor single around.
Yeah I probably could have done it myself, but really didnt feel like messing up my stuff.
Now the guy that built it is not really the greatest person according to honda-tech but he did a good job and gave me alot of free stuff to help me along.
And still to this day (i have had the motor together for almost a year) and everytime I have a ? about something he will answer his cell phone and talk with me about the ? that I have.
The difference in power is all on the builder and there techniques.
Yeah I probably could have done it myself, but really didnt feel like messing up my stuff.
Now the guy that built it is not really the greatest person according to honda-tech but he did a good job and gave me alot of free stuff to help me along.
And still to this day (i have had the motor together for almost a year) and everytime I have a ? about something he will answer his cell phone and talk with me about the ? that I have.
The difference in power is all on the builder and there techniques.
10-25-2006, 04:44 PM
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Re: Having a shop build the motor ... Why? (Axle)
i think most people that have the know how like myself , only can go so far then a machine shop has to do the work since they have the proper tools to do it right
10-25-2006, 05:50 PM
#25
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Re: Having a shop build the motor ... Why? (AllMotorMark)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by AllMotorMark »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i think most people that have the know how like myself , only can go so far then a machine shop has to do the work since they have the proper tools to do it right</TD></TR></TABLE>