GOLDBERG

can someone help me decide which one to do???i know the c1 can make madd power turboed....but what about the h22???i havent been impressed by dynos of turbo h22's that ive seen (low 300's off 12psi) because ive seen gsr's make that off 9-10psi...anyhow could yall help me make up my mind...the gsr and h22 swaps would be ppretty close to the same price before i build it..but it might be harder for me to find a manifold for the H....and the H is a bit heavier and i really dont know how much it will affect handling honestly..i'll have H&R race or neuspeed race springs on koni yellow shocks...do yall think this will be a good enough suspension setup for either swap??oh yeah i can also get a b16b to turbo for like 100 cheaper then the gsr ...should I go with that and change out the crank to a b18 crank?if i do that which rods will i need?gsr rods(forged)???

sweet

iTrader: (5)

well the H22A will need the mounts and misc. items to fit into a Civic, so it'll be more costly and also heavier. the B18C1 is a great motor and drops right into a Civic, though it may cost about the same as the H22A motor. the B16B is ok, but for the $$ not worth for a turbo setup.

as for swapping out the B16 crank for the B18 crank, it's not exactly easy. you'll need custom rods of the correct length to fit the B18C crank into the shorter deck height B16 block. you could pick up a B17A crank to put into a B16 block, but you'll need to use the B17A rods so piston to valve clearance is ok. if you want to use the B18C crank, then you'll need short enough rods to fit below the deck surface. the B16/B17 blocks have lower deck heights than the B18A/B/C.

so in the end i personally would go with the B18C1, prolly one of the best motors for the $$. switch out the IM for a Skunk2, along with a few other goodies for the turbo setup, and it'll be a nice performing motor. more power than the B16, and lighter and easier to install than the H22A.

GOLDBERG

cool man thnx..just wanna point out tho the deck height of the b16 B is the same as the b18's..supposedly just a destroked itr motor

anyhow i think i'm gonna go with a b18c1

pissedoffsol

the GSR is hands down the best honda botoome end out there (In my opinion of course).

-stock girlde
-oil squiters that the ls/crv block don't have
-a good rod/stroke ratio which borders on the fine line between rev happy and torque monster, so you get the best of both worlds
-100000's of parts availble for it

its a potent swap... and is enough to hit 650 whp if built properly. 650 whp will get in you in the high 8s in a race car. why go bigger?
leave the h22's for the preludes and accords

SiRkid

torque monster????lol
b16/18c are my two motors of choice.

sweet

iTrader: (5)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GOLDBERG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">cool man thnx..just wanna point out tho the deck height of the b16 B is the same as the b18's..supposedly just a destroked itr motor
</TD></TR></TABLE>

the B16A is basically a "destroked ITR motor", but without the cams, C/R, mild headwork, IM, EM, TB, tranny and ECU program. the B16B is a combonation of the B16A and the B18C5. you get the cams and all that other good stuff, but only 1.6L instead of 1.8L displacement. with the shorter stroke comes the lower deck height, both for the B16A and the B16B. basically the same motor, only the B16B is tweaked like the ITR motor. the B16 uses a shorter crank stroke, a shorter length rod, and a shorter deck height than the B18C motors.

the choice of going with the B18C1 is a good one IMO.

pissedoffsol

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sweet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

the B16A is basically a "destroked ITR motor", </TD></TR></TABLE>

you have no idea what you are talking about.

the b16a deck is physcially shorter than that of a b16b, b18b, b18c, b18c /R.

if anything, the b16b is a de-stroked ITR motor

Boostfed

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by pissedoffsol &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

you have no idea what you are talking about.

the b16a deck is physcially shorter than that of a b16b, b18b, b18c, b18c /R.

if anything, the b16b is a de-stroked ITR motor</TD></TR></TABLE>
pissedoffsol is correct a B16B is a B18C motor only with a destroked crank, rods and pistons, you put a B18C crank and rods in and you are a 1.8, B16B is same deck height as B18A/B/C/C5 but B16A is 7mm shorter, B17A is same exact deck height as B16A with longer stroke crank and diff rods, HTH!

AlLMoToRvOtEr

Go with a CTR block with a ITR crank with some rods and pistons then you will fool everyone.

sweet

iTrader: (5)

hmm, thanks for the correction on the B16B. you worded it so nicely.

i'm sorry i'm not so knowledgeable about the JDM stuff, maybe that's due to the fact that i've never worked with any JDM motor cept the 1st Gen. B16A.

so it leads me wondering why Honda would make the B16B deck height the same as the B18 motors but yet still use the shorter crank stroke which yields 1.6L?

maybe it's due to the higher C/R piston or something else?

i just don't see a point to using a higher deck height if you don't use the room for more displacement.

DLB1994

what about the honda big block h23

mos

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by sweet &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

so it leads me wondering why Honda would make the B16B deck height the same as the B18 motors but yet still use the shorter crank stroke which yields 1.6L?

maybe it's due to the higher C/R piston or something else?

i just don't see a point to using a higher deck height if you don't use the room for more displacement.

</TD></TR></TABLE>

They use the higher deck so that they get to use the longer rods. Usually on a high revving engine you want a high rod to stroke ratio thingie. It puts less stress on the engine internals and stuff. Theres probably a bunch of thinggies about this if you search the archives about rods and strokes and stuffs. Ya.

GOLDBERG

got any dynos to back that up??personally ive neveer seen a b16 make 300+ with 9-10psi..only b18's

sweet

iTrader: (5)

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by mos &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">They use the higher deck so that they get to use the longer rods. Usually on a high revving engine you want a high rod to stroke ratio thingie. It puts less stress on the engine internals and stuff. Theres probably a bunch of thinggies about this if you search the archives about rods and strokes and stuffs. Ya. </TD></TR></TABLE>

that actually was my first guess, in order to use a longer rod to increase the R/S ratio while leaving the displacement about the same. i know how the R/S ratio works, i just wanted to know the exact reason why Honda designed the B16B that way. i could see increasing the deck height in order to lengthen the rod while keeping the piston under the deck surface and retaining enough valve to piston clearance. that way the rod to stroke ratio goes up for easier high rpm use etc.

AlLMoToRvOtEr

Hey GOLDBERG I can't remember who posted it but there is some girl on the East coast with a Bone stock b16 block in a 92 integra race car that ran a 10.3 a couple of weeks ago and I will gurentee that is more then 300 WHP I bet that is more like 450 WHP.

intekragsr

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by GOLDBERG &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">got any dynos to back that up??personally ive neveer seen a b16 make 300+ with 9-10psi..only b18's</TD></TR></TABLE>

who says b16a cant make 300+ at 10 psi? Its a non stroked motor. The torque is weak, but flat.


more info here - https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=463420