B18Sleeper

Ok I have a B16a2 with 118k on it now, my power goals are simple eventually get up to 600hp. But my question is I know I have a Bseries already and I know all the pros and cons to the motors but what motor would everyone in the FI forum say from experience I should go with in my 00 SI. My picks are my b16a2, a b18c1, or a b18c5? I am not going ls/vtec cause I dont want to worry bout converting the ls block to vtec its simple just more money I could put in a vtec motor.

B16

Pros
High RPM power
Fairly inexpensive
Good transmission

Cons
Very little torque over D16z6 stock
Under 4k or so it feels just like a D16

B18C1

Pros
Good Hp and TQ numbers
Tons of potential
High revving

Cons
Expensive
Harder to find that B16
Slighty longer tranny than the ITR and B16

B18C5

Pros
GREAT HP and TQ numbers
High revving
Hand built motor from Honda
Optional factory LSD
Best transmission for a B series

Cons
EXPENSIVE
36mm axle 32mm hub problems

So what is the best for the a FI cause I dont want a laggy motor and I want something impressive. Anyone? Thanks

Topdawgg

to be honest, with an extensive build like you are going to tackle, any of them will be fine.
Personally I would build a GSR. They are cheaper then the Type R and are very similar. Depending on what you want out of the car, either tranny could good.
The thing is, they all will end up with the same results if you build them right. Definetly go with something with more tq though, so that leaves the B16 out.

I see that you say that the type R is high reving, but if you think about it, you are going to build this thing to make 600whp, so the valvetrain should be something that is gonna rev high anyways, so the type R has no advantage there because either of them can rev just as high with the proper valvetrain.

B18Sleeper

Yes but if I am not mistaken the b16 and b18's have the same bore just a little more stroke. So if I take my B16 and bore it out a little I should get a little more torque out of the motor. But I cant find an inexpensive b18c1 when u can find b16a2's for alot cheaper. Would it be such a bad idea if I ran a b18c1 block and b16a2 head? I mean what I want out of my civic is pretty much a nice street car that will pull on many of the "fast" cars out there and be impressive when I pull out and stomp on it. I know I will have lag but once I get into my turbo I can try to eliminate the lag to as less as possible. Plus if I am not mistaken the only difference in torque between the gsr and b16 motor is like what 17lbs? which all comes from the stroke difference. Torque is what gets me off the line and honestly I wont be doing competetive drag racing just fun and alot of the cars power will be shown driving down the road for me not street racing. So is 17lbs. of torque that big of a deal? Sorry just putting what I think out there to get others opinions not saying anyone is wrong on what they say, I just want more information and someone to point out somethings I may not have thought of yet. Thanks

Topdawgg

17 pounds stock, but you are building a 600whp motor, its not going to be small anymore. They difference could be 100-150 wtq

Just buy and LS block and do an LS Vtec conversion. You wont have any issues if you do it right. Ive had mine at 450whp daily and 500 on race gas for 2 seasons now with no issues. Beat on daily and its fun as hell.

I took a b18a block, sent it to golden eagle and got it sleeved. Bought pistons, good rods and all ARP hardware. Mine is bored out to 84mm which makes it close to a b20.
The money you save not buying a full GSR Swap, you can put into the GSR tranny and buy a good LSD like quaife and you are good to go.

IMO, the GSR block would be nice to have, but you can build a badass LS block that will do the same thing. I bought my LS block for 20$ from a junk yard. IT had warped cylinder walls and couldnt be bored. So i sleeved it instead and its still goin strong.

B18Sleeper

yes but gettin a ls/vtec done right is alot more work, where as i can get the b18c1 and not have to worry about getting a vtec conversion.

HiProfile

For 600whp, you won't be spending chump change on parts. A few hundred more for a B18C1 bottom end will be a small percent of the overall investment. Hell the 600whp turbo you'll need will already cost you a goof $1500. As for A B18C5...you already have a vtec head, ITR's are barely ported anyways, and you will most likely want bigger cams than the ITR has. IMO the best route to go, if not B18B, is to get a B18C1 block, or get it complete and sell the head.


<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18Sleeper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">what I want out of my civic is pretty much a nice street car that will pull on many of the "fast" cars out there and be impressive when I pull out and stomp on it.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That said, 600whp is a STUPID goal. You will need slicks to harness 600whp on the road - BIG slicks. The people I know with drag radials & 400whp spin in 1-3rd gears on the street, and can spin in 4th too. The lag you'll get with a 600whp-capible turbo will also be excessive for the street. I think you should watch some streetfire/youtube vids, then rethink your goals. A 400whp Civic will spank mostly any mildly-moddified V8 on the street, especially from a roll.

Topdawgg

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by B18Sleeper &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes but gettin a ls/vtec done right is alot more work, where as i can get the b18c1 and not have to worry about getting a vtec conversion. </TD></TR></TABLE>

how is it alot more work? You have to do everything to the GSR block except the LS/Vtec conversion kit. Thats like maybe 200$ more to do..

If you are worried about an extra 200$ then you really shouldnt be tackling a 600whp build..

ahobbs

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Topdawgg &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

how is it alot more work? You have to do everything to the GSR block except the LS/Vtec conversion kit. Thats like maybe 200$ more to do..
</TD></TR></TABLE>

not even that.

I think your thinking way too much into it. Get a B18c1 and call it a day.

B18Sleeper

Ok for now I dont want the 600hp right off the bat. I am looking for a good street car now but a motor that has the potential to get up to 600 later. So if i just build a 400hp motor u still say drop the b16 and get a b18c1 or a b18a/b? Cause I was thinkin bout gettin a b18a and using my b16a head on it. i aint worried about the money on the ls/vtec conversion i just dont see if i have to pay what 50 to 100 for the block and crank on a ls then 150 or whatever more i ma sure i can find a bare b18c1 block with crank. that is the only thing with me altho if i can find a b18a/b for cheap i would get it. and for right now i have a .57 trim garrett t3/to4e with .63a/r should hold me good for up to 450hp. so if i got to 400 still get hte b18c1 or b18a/b block ?

ahobbs

lsvtec or GSR either one...but get a bigger turbo

92VXeg

iTrader: (1)

If your not going Ls/v then i would say Sleeved GSR block....LS Crank,,,,,,FTW
Im saying GSR because it has the girdle.
Plus there are about 100 gsr blocks on honda-tech for sale at anytime

Do the B16's have the Girdle? I know the Ls dont.

narfdanarf

my stock bore b16 makes more torque than a lot of b18's at the same hp level. I make 345wtq and 450whp with a 57 trim. On like 22lbs...don't know what it's making at 30lbs..prolly somewhere around 500whp.

B18Sleeper

b16 dont come with girdle gsr does. and why must i get a bigger turbo. u telling me i wasted my money now?

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by narfdanarf &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">my stock bore b16 makes more torque than a lot of b18's at the same hp level. I make 345wtq and 450whp with a 57 trim. On like 22lbs...don't know what it's making at 30lbs..prolly somewhere around 500whp.</TD></TR></TABLE>

what is ur complete setup?

B18Sleeper

Ok so I bought a GSR block today. Would there be any problems with puttin a b18b1 crank in the b18c1? besides the clearence to clear for the counter weights on the ls crank?