Matyikaaa90

Hey all,

I have been trying to do my own research regarding turbo selection for my B16A2 del Sol. Keep in mind the car is mostly a daily driver (not during winter though) with some track days in the plan.
Since the engine and head are stock right now I would like to end up somewhere in the 260-270 bhp range max and once I go forged maybe add another 100 hp. I think more than 350 hp on front wheel drive cars is overkill. I would like to get boost by around 3500-4000 RPM. The lower I get it the happier I will be but I'm willing to sacrifice if that means the turbo will not run out till redline.
For now, I have 3 choices in mind. I wanna buy once and I wanna buy right.

Number 1.
GT2871r. I see that most of the GT28 series turbos come with T25 turbine housing with internal wastegates but the 71r is available with a t3 housing at some places at additional price.
Do I need the T3 housing and an external wastegate or will I be fine with the standard T25 internal wastegate turbine housing for the goals I described above? With T3, I would chose 0.63 AR which is equivalent to the 0.86 T25 so in that case that's what I would go with. I think the compressor side is 56 trim in both cases.

Number 2.
Just get a GT3076r 0.63 AR 56 trim and be done with. (This is by the way the same price as the GT2871r with T3 housing now as I'm looking at it)

Number 3.
Also, what about an "old" non-BB T3/T04e 0.63 AR 50 trim? This is significantly cheaper and many people used them in the past with great feedback.

Prices what I have seen in some of the European shops (if you know better just shout it out loud lol)
GT2871r standard T25 housing ~ 1100 euros
GT2871r T3 housing ~1300 euros
GT3076r ~1300 euros
T3/T04e ~ 800 euros

Now that I am looking at these numbers I'm not sure if I wanna spend 1.3k on just the turbo...but if it's worth it I will consider. Just would like your inputs.

Balor_Gr

700382-5020S GT2971R | TM Sport & Racing
Get this its on discount.
Internal wastegate works like a charm.
Or else you can do this: (it works SUPER nice)
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced...sults-3297362/

Matyikaaa90

I know they work great but external is undeniably better so my question was whether I would feel any regret going internal over external.

Aren't the prices in this webshop too good to be true? GT3076r 1000 euros only? (and also on discount) I'd get that no question if that was true. These prices were without VAT I'm blind still good though, bookmarked, thanks!

You have a nice build going on there, I'm gonna check your thread out tomorrow.

cruizinmax

iTrader: (2)

I'll share my experience, I have a gt2871r internally gated with the .86 hotside on my b18c. The setup was a gsr block, type r pistons and cams and a Skunk2 pro series intake manifold. It required e85 due to running 11.5:1 compression. I used the edelbrock exhaust manifold and downpipe. On my particular setup I was not able to keep the boost under 12psi even using apexi noir exhaust (60mm piping with a chambered muffler). The wastegate just wouldn't flow enough. At that boost it was making a little over 300hp. Simply removing the muffler and it would make 14.5psi. In that trim it dynoed 350 to the wheels and ran 12.6@118mph in the 1/4 mile. It was a very fun and responsive setup making 1-2 psi by 1500rpm. Unfortunately I recently lost the motor after 2 years of being boosted. I put a 3" exhaust on it this summer and when the cold weather came around boost was creeping up to 17 psi with my 12lb wastegate. That ended up being too much for the sleeves and #4 let go.

I think the gt2871r would be a perfect turbo for your b16. I would just keep the longblock totally stock. Don't waste money on cams or intake manifold or any of that bs. It would fit your short term and long term goals very well. Your really just can't beat the feel of the small gt turbos. The dyno only tells 1/2 the story. Transient response, how boost recovers between shifts, they're just amazing. If you were aiming for over 400 wheel I would suggest the gt30 but really in your case I think the gt28 family is the way to go.

Balor_Gr

^ very good post

If your internal wastegate turbo has 2 different exhaust exits one for the downpipe and one alone for the internal its like having external wastegate.Mine has that: Look at the downpipe on the floor.
Its the simplest and cost efficient and efficient setup since you dump your wg exaust out of the flow. Less overboost due due cramped gases and more controll.Plus you dont loose hp.

turbomaniac

GT3076 give full boost above 4500 rpm, gt2871 at about 3700, t04e 50 trim stays somewere in the middle.

IMO get tO4e 50 trim. Same (and slightely more) high end power with GT2871r. No need also for external WG in my opinion.

Matyikaaa90

Thank you for sharing your experience. I'm sure it is a blast but I really don't need any kinds of boost at 1500 rpm as I live in the capital city and during non-winter months when I use the car I do drive it daily and 50% of the time the traffic flow is really slow. I think it would be unnecessary.
Why did you advise me not to spend on bolt ons? I was thinking of getting a bigger TB with a matching Intake Manifold at least. Wouldn't it be worth the money? Stock cams are pretty good for turbo so I would leave those.

this is true but the standard T25 housing outlet isn't exactly split like your turbo.

I think this is what's gonna happen. it's much cheaper than the GT2871r, has better compatibility if I later decide to switch to, for example, GT30 and when I was comparing compressor maps it seemed to me that with the T04e 50 trim it would be more efficient as well. So I guess it's decided.

Balor_Gr

50 trim will need external wastegate tho.
If you really want external wastegte 450-500 hp turbo you wont find a better
turbo from the 7 blade "super" holset HX35. It can be found on 7cm housing ~.63 a/r
VERY good turbo.Its use a lot in europe with very good spool and around 480hp map power.
Id bet it has both better spool and top end from the 50 trim.Dont get me wrong i like th 50 trim but the
7blade 54/77 55/65 holset has super results.

Matyikaaa90

Yeah, I know, I'm fine with external WG. Just need to make sure I route it back correctly to the downpipe and I should have no issues.
Going towards the 400 hp range will be a plan for later times, for now I want to stay around 300 crank hp. I just want the extra room for when I decide to go further.

Kevinio

What kind of behaviour are you looking for, because for those prices you told in your first post you can have such better turbos than the ones you ask for.

Chance EG

GT2871 would be perfect for your goals, Cruizin had some pretty good input. Only immediate problem I can see you potentially running into with the IWG setup would be finding a good turbo manifold that supports it, most aftermarket turbo manifolds are T3. Personally I'd spend the extra cash on a T3 .63 EWG and never have to second guess it.

Keep in mind you have less displacement and compression than Cruizin, so you would not be making 2psi by 1500RPM like him.

liam821

You might also want to think about the Borg Warner EFR line of turbos, a bunch of them are available in a T3 IWG setup - if you already have a T3 manifold.

Chance EG

Mmm, also true. EFR has some interesting offerings, never gotten to use them personally but the "S256 Bullseye" Borg Warner I used with an H22 a while back yielded really good results.

One of the smaller EFR units would function really well in the T3 profile.

liam821

I have an EFR 7064/T3/IWG on an 85mm 9.8:1 ITR, but I literally started the engine for the first time yesterday. Hopefully, I'll get it on a dyno next week to get tuned so I don't have any impressions as of yet. They're pretty sweet turbos though, integrated BOV, boost solenoid, and wastegate in one package.

JKaze

In my setup, I went with GT2871R , T31 (0.63) housing and external wastegate (MVS). I bought GT2871R's slightly used (500km), then sold original T25/IWG with reasonable price.

cruizinmax

iTrader: (2)

Nice setup! Do you have any picture of the setup installed in the car? I'm curious to see how the wastegate dump routes and clearance to A/C if you have it.

Chance EG

I also wouldn't mind seeing some pics. Just a juicy looking manifold

I'll be using the same one on my B16 (when I finally have money, cough cough)

Edit: If anyone else is curious/browsing the manifold in JKaze's photo is the Go-Autoworks RR manifold (correct me if I'm wrong, looks like a GA badge on the runner). SpeedFactory also has an identical design, "mini ram". I really like where it places the wastegate and lets you route the dumptube, and overall seems to fit a bit more neatly than the AC compatible full ram horns.

Matyikaaa90

you guys are making this choice so hard, which is good by the way.
I was pretty much set on choosing a new T3/T04e, then I was offered a GT2876r (which should be just a bigger compressor housing than the 71r I guess?) for the same price, although slightly used, but was still resisting, and now I'm seeing these latest replies...I really don't know. "luckily" (I don't have the funds), I don't have to decide yet. I do know that I like the characteristics of the high reving engine. A turbo that spools quick would sort of kill this?!

I don't have the manifold yet as it will be custom made to the turbo that I will have. This mini ram looks dope though.

liam821

Here is how my EFR7064 looks on a PeakBoost T3 ramhorn manifold. The 44mm wastegate was blocked off with a plate.





Using a different valve cover now, but here is the engine in the car. Tight fit with the radiator.

Chance EG

The image you tried to post isn't working for me

JKaze

Not yet, sorry. I just built the engine and now working with lines/pipes.


Yep, it's Go-Autoworks RR. Really solid and well finished, real craftmanship. Correct me, but SF's "mini ram" isn't A/C-compatible (just watching the turboflange's angle).

https://www.speedfactoryracing.net/f...ifold?___SID=U