GSR crank in LS block
07-22-2006, 11:42 PM
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GSR crank in LS block
i've seen a few people running this combo
are there any pro's besides being able to rev higher more safely with this setup?
what about cons? i understand its a shorter stroke compared to the 89mm ls stroke so tq will be a bit lower.
should i just pick up a gsr block so i don't have to worry about the oil squirters and dowel pins or would the gsr crank/ls block be a fine build if done correctly? also is there any additional machining that needs to be done?
i've done some searching but haven't really seen much feedback. car will be using an sc61, cp pistons, stock sleeves, looking to boost about 20 lbs or so
any feedback would be appreciated
are there any pro's besides being able to rev higher more safely with this setup?
what about cons? i understand its a shorter stroke compared to the 89mm ls stroke so tq will be a bit lower.
should i just pick up a gsr block so i don't have to worry about the oil squirters and dowel pins or would the gsr crank/ls block be a fine build if done correctly? also is there any additional machining that needs to be done?
i've done some searching but haven't really seen much feedback. car will be using an sc61, cp pistons, stock sleeves, looking to boost about 20 lbs or so
any feedback would be appreciated
07-23-2006, 12:02 AM
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Re: GSR crank in LS block (EGkid)
either way will work.. Gsr block or ls block.. Personally I'd keep the longer stroke and keep the ls crank in. I assume you're going to get aftermarket rods. Which is the LS's weak spot (rod bolts). Just make sure you got some good rod bolts and you can do the 8500 rev with a vtec head no problem.
07-23-2006, 04:11 AM
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Re: GSR crank in LS block (SiKid86)
yes it would work, You would have to use the GSR crank, aftermarket GSR rods, GSR pistons.
If I where you I would just get the GSR block so you dont have to do all the extra crap for a Vtec head to work.
If I where you I would just get the GSR block so you dont have to do all the extra crap for a Vtec head to work.
07-23-2006, 09:46 AM
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LS block > GSR block in almost every single way
the ls block with the ls crank will make more power than the GSR block with the LS crank, and EITHER block will make more power with the LS crank than the other witht he GSR.
the ONLY downside to an LS block is the need to run an extra line to the head for the vtec to engage...but that's not hardly a good enough reason to give up a superior block
the ls block with the ls crank will make more power than the GSR block with the LS crank, and EITHER block will make more power with the LS crank than the other witht he GSR.
the ONLY downside to an LS block is the need to run an extra line to the head for the vtec to engage...but that's not hardly a good enough reason to give up a superior block
07-23-2006, 10:27 AM
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Re: (boosted94cx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS block > GSR block in almost every single way
the ls block with the ls crank will make more power than the GSR block with the LS crank, and EITHER block will make more power with the LS crank than the other witht he GSR.
the ONLY downside to an LS block is the need to run an extra line to the head for the vtec to engage...but that's not hardly a good enough reason to give up a superior block</TD></TR></TABLE>why is the ls block superior in every way..just curious..thanks
the ls block with the ls crank will make more power than the GSR block with the LS crank, and EITHER block will make more power with the LS crank than the other witht he GSR.
the ONLY downside to an LS block is the need to run an extra line to the head for the vtec to engage...but that's not hardly a good enough reason to give up a superior block</TD></TR></TABLE>why is the ls block superior in every way..just curious..thanks
07-23-2006, 10:33 AM
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Re: (boosted94cx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">LS block > GSR block in almost every single way
the ls block with the ls crank will make more power than the GSR block with the LS crank, and EITHER block will make more power with the LS crank than the other witht he GSR.
the ONLY downside to an LS block is the need to run an extra line to the head for the vtec to engage...but that's not hardly a good enough reason to give up a superior block</TD></TR></TABLE>
I hate to burst your bubble but the LS block is the same as the GSR except three things... 1 the oil passages for the Vtec head, 2 oil squirters and 3 stock girdle.
the deck hight of both are the same. the other things that are down fall is that it doesnt have the stock girdle and the LS main caps tend not to like higher revs.
the LS crank wont make more power, but it will make more tourqe. and I would rather use the LS crank in the GSR block because you wont have to get the conversion dowle pins and vtec conversion. But thats just me
the ls block with the ls crank will make more power than the GSR block with the LS crank, and EITHER block will make more power with the LS crank than the other witht he GSR.
the ONLY downside to an LS block is the need to run an extra line to the head for the vtec to engage...but that's not hardly a good enough reason to give up a superior block</TD></TR></TABLE>
I hate to burst your bubble but the LS block is the same as the GSR except three things... 1 the oil passages for the Vtec head, 2 oil squirters and 3 stock girdle.
the deck hight of both are the same. the other things that are down fall is that it doesnt have the stock girdle and the LS main caps tend not to like higher revs.
the LS crank wont make more power, but it will make more tourqe. and I would rather use the LS crank in the GSR block because you wont have to get the conversion dowle pins and vtec conversion. But thats just me
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07-23-2006, 03:05 PM
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Re: (BoostedEG6)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by BoostedEG6 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I hate to burst your bubble but the LS block is the same as the GSR except three things... 1 the oil passages for the Vtec head, 2 oil squirters and 3 stock girdle.
the deck hight of both are the same. the other things that are down fall is that it doesnt have the stock girdle and the LS main caps tend not to like higher revs.
the LS crank wont make more power, but it will make more tourqe. and I would rather use the LS crank in the GSR block because you wont have to get the conversion dowle pins and vtec conversion. But thats just me</TD></TR></TABLE>
1. no oil squirters > oil squiters. most ppl with forged pistons remove them anyways...and when you don't have to worry about plugging them...bam, better block
2. the stock girdle is worthless. it robs power and doesn't really do as good of a job as ppl assume. the ls block will have less windage losses and there fore, more power. although this would be a VERY small percentage... more = more
3. ls mains don't like revs? LOLLLLLLLLLLLL i guess all those 10.5k shifting LS/vtecs are but a myth.... LS mains are perfectly suited for what a street car can/would/should need to rev. 9.5k is absolutely no problem
4. horsepower is a function of tq. more tq, more hp.
the deck hight of both are the same. the other things that are down fall is that it doesnt have the stock girdle and the LS main caps tend not to like higher revs.
the LS crank wont make more power, but it will make more tourqe. and I would rather use the LS crank in the GSR block because you wont have to get the conversion dowle pins and vtec conversion. But thats just me</TD></TR></TABLE>
1. no oil squirters > oil squiters. most ppl with forged pistons remove them anyways...and when you don't have to worry about plugging them...bam, better block
2. the stock girdle is worthless. it robs power and doesn't really do as good of a job as ppl assume. the ls block will have less windage losses and there fore, more power. although this would be a VERY small percentage... more = more
3. ls mains don't like revs? LOLLLLLLLLLLLL i guess all those 10.5k shifting LS/vtecs are but a myth.... LS mains are perfectly suited for what a street car can/would/should need to rev. 9.5k is absolutely no problem
4. horsepower is a function of tq. more tq, more hp.
07-23-2006, 03:30 PM
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Re: (boosted94cx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
1. no oil squirters > oil squiters. most ppl with forged pistons remove them anyways...and when you don't have to worry about plugging them...bam, better block
2. the stock girdle is worthless. it robs power and doesn't really do as good of a job as ppl assume. the ls block will have less windage losses and there fore, more power. although this would be a VERY small percentage... more = more
3. ls mains don't like revs? LOLLLLLLLLLLLL i guess all those 10.5k shifting LS/vtecs are but a myth.... LS mains are perfectly suited for what a street car can/would/should need to rev. 9.5k is absolutely no problem
4. horsepower is a function of tq. more tq, more hp.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL I would like to see you rev a LS block to 10.5 with no girdle and see how long it last......
1. no oil squirters > oil squiters. most ppl with forged pistons remove them anyways...and when you don't have to worry about plugging them...bam, better block
2. the stock girdle is worthless. it robs power and doesn't really do as good of a job as ppl assume. the ls block will have less windage losses and there fore, more power. although this would be a VERY small percentage... more = more
3. ls mains don't like revs? LOLLLLLLLLLLLL i guess all those 10.5k shifting LS/vtecs are but a myth.... LS mains are perfectly suited for what a street car can/would/should need to rev. 9.5k is absolutely no problem
4. horsepower is a function of tq. more tq, more hp.</TD></TR></TABLE>
LOL I would like to see you rev a LS block to 10.5 with no girdle and see how long it last......
07-23-2006, 05:55 PM
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so, you obvioulsy think the stock girlde does a LOT of work then, huh? why's that? it's joins the middle 3 mains, the weakest allready. now, a 5 main girdle...maybe...but, still nothing i'd ever invest in.
but, let me post this......why would you WANT to rev an LS block to 10.5k? and if oyu did, how many times do you think you'd ever nEED to? i'm not trying to backtrack here...just stating some questions that i'd liek to pose for thinking about.
either way........i'd go LS block. they're cheaper to buy as well, forgot to add that in there too
but, let me post this......why would you WANT to rev an LS block to 10.5k? and if oyu did, how many times do you think you'd ever nEED to? i'm not trying to backtrack here...just stating some questions that i'd liek to pose for thinking about.
either way........i'd go LS block. they're cheaper to buy as well, forgot to add that in there too
07-23-2006, 06:38 PM
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Re: (boosted94cx)
That was my whole point 
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ls mains don't like revs? LOLLLLLLLLLLLL i guess all those 10.5k shifting LS/vtecs are but a myth....</TD></TR></TABLE>
sounds kinda like back tracking from what you say in that one then you say:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but, let me post this......why would you WANT to rev an LS block to 10.5k? and if oyu did, how many times do you think you'd ever nEED to? i'm not trying to backtrack here...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would go for the GSR block just because I dont like having to do all the extra stuff thats not needed like plugging the oil passage in the head, doing the Vtec conversion, getting new dowl pins and what not.
If you build it right the first time there is no need to buy another one
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> ls mains don't like revs? LOLLLLLLLLLLLL i guess all those 10.5k shifting LS/vtecs are but a myth....</TD></TR></TABLE>
sounds kinda like back tracking from what you say in that one then you say:
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">but, let me post this......why would you WANT to rev an LS block to 10.5k? and if oyu did, how many times do you think you'd ever nEED to? i'm not trying to backtrack here...</TD></TR></TABLE>
I would go for the GSR block just because I dont like having to do all the extra stuff thats not needed like plugging the oil passage in the head, doing the Vtec conversion, getting new dowl pins and what not.
If you build it right the first time there is no need to buy another one
07-23-2006, 07:15 PM
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race cars rev to 10.5k. i know of several EXTREMELY fast cars running LS blocks, and many shops that will onyl use them. RLZ for example...they run LS blocks, for a reason. Brad and howard changed over from GSR blocks to LS blocks and just kept getting faster.
and, the extra stuff is no big deal. the dowels pop in...and locally, Ls gaskets are both cheaper, and easier to get in stock. the oil line....no biggie, if going boost, you've allready gotta tap that area anyways, 1 extra lines extremely simple to add in. plugging the head.....5 min and anyone can do it their selfs.
my BIGGEST reason to go LS, is price. they're much cheaper to buy as a short block, and much easier to find at junk yards and locally. you can buy 2 ls short blocks for the price of 1 GSR. you can drive on one while you build the other or you cna have a spare.
but.......i guess it comes down to personal preferece. i'd go with a cheaper block...if i can get a few free hp out of it and save the rest of hte money for other parts. but...GSR blocks are simple.
and, the extra stuff is no big deal. the dowels pop in...and locally, Ls gaskets are both cheaper, and easier to get in stock. the oil line....no biggie, if going boost, you've allready gotta tap that area anyways, 1 extra lines extremely simple to add in. plugging the head.....5 min and anyone can do it their selfs.
my BIGGEST reason to go LS, is price. they're much cheaper to buy as a short block, and much easier to find at junk yards and locally. you can buy 2 ls short blocks for the price of 1 GSR. you can drive on one while you build the other or you cna have a spare.
but.......i guess it comes down to personal preferece. i'd go with a cheaper block...if i can get a few free hp out of it and save the rest of hte money for other parts. but...GSR blocks are simple.
07-24-2006, 04:20 AM
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Re: (boosted94cx)
I never said that it couldn’t be done. I know has been done. I know that I have also seen LS Blocks that have been reved to 10.5 a lot and you take them apart and it has had major crank walk the whole time.
I always follow the rule of K.I.S.S. it has worked for me and I have never had any problems. But like you and I both said, it’s all personal preference. There are people who can get GSR blocks the same price of LS block. So I would take a GSR over a LS just because I like to keep it simple.
I always follow the rule of K.I.S.S. it has worked for me and I have never had any problems. But like you and I both said, it’s all personal preference. There are people who can get GSR blocks the same price of LS block. So I would take a GSR over a LS just because I like to keep it simple.
07-24-2006, 06:35 AM
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crankwalk? i have a close friend with a b20/vtec...it's hit 11k-12k SEVERAL times.......and his bearings looked better than my 9500rpm ITR.... maybe you just saw a poorly assembled engine..cause i've seen 6500rpm d series with **** bearings
07-24-2006, 07:09 AM
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Re: (boosted94cx)
i personally have used both blocks with zero problems and i definately push my motors hard...it usually just comes down to what i can get my hands on first that wont cost me an arm and a leg...to the op i personally prefer an ls crank myself 
07-24-2006, 07:15 AM
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Re: (boosted94cx)
No I know it wasnt a poorly assembled engine... No two motors are the same.... But anywho... Like I said before I prefer a GSR block with a LS crank... Thats just me though. Everyone has there own preference
It also depeneds on how much money the person wants to spend on the build. I dont have to worry about funding a project so I dont take a cheap route (not saying that a LS is a cheap route) I build my car the way I want it not the way someone on the internet likes to see things done, and I have never had a problem with any of my builds
It also depeneds on how much money the person wants to spend on the build. I dont have to worry about funding a project so I dont take a cheap route (not saying that a LS is a cheap route) I build my car the way I want it not the way someone on the internet likes to see things done, and I have never had a problem with any of my builds
07-24-2006, 07:53 AM
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Re: (boosted94cx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1. no oil squirters > oil squiters. most ppl with forged pistons remove them anyways...and when you don't have to worry about plugging them...bam, better block
2. the stock girdle is worthless. it robs power and doesn't really do as good of a job as ppl assume. the ls block will have less windage losses and there fore, more power. although this would be a VERY small percentage... more = more
3. ls mains don't like revs? LOLLLLLLLLLLLL i guess all those 10.5k shifting LS/vtecs are but a myth.... LS mains are perfectly suited for what a street car can/would/should need to rev. 9.5k is absolutely no problem
4. horsepower is a function of tq. more tq, more hp.</TD></TR></TABLE>
u can't say no oil squirters are > oil squirters. nevermind the fact what most ppl do with forged internals, but logically thats just a false statement.
ur cooling the pistons and therefore reducing the chance of detonation..and that is ALWAYS better than not reducing the chance of det.
ur girdle claims seem a bit out there too but whatever..
anyway, im using an ls block, no squirters, gsr crank, crowers/cp's and making 500+ no issues.
eg kid - check IM
2. the stock girdle is worthless. it robs power and doesn't really do as good of a job as ppl assume. the ls block will have less windage losses and there fore, more power. although this would be a VERY small percentage... more = more
3. ls mains don't like revs? LOLLLLLLLLLLLL i guess all those 10.5k shifting LS/vtecs are but a myth.... LS mains are perfectly suited for what a street car can/would/should need to rev. 9.5k is absolutely no problem
4. horsepower is a function of tq. more tq, more hp.</TD></TR></TABLE>
u can't say no oil squirters are > oil squirters. nevermind the fact what most ppl do with forged internals, but logically thats just a false statement.
ur cooling the pistons and therefore reducing the chance of detonation..and that is ALWAYS better than not reducing the chance of det.
ur girdle claims seem a bit out there too but whatever..
anyway, im using an ls block, no squirters, gsr crank, crowers/cp's and making 500+ no issues.
eg kid - check IM
07-24-2006, 07:57 AM
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no oil squirters = less hassle, more power, better oil pressure. that's where i get that they're superior.
if you still have cast/hyper pistons...then, yeah, they come in handy. but with the superior heat properties of forged pistons...they do nothing but rob power.
and the girdle thing has been proven....just not much talk about it, one of those kinds of things
if you still have cast/hyper pistons...then, yeah, they come in handy. but with the superior heat properties of forged pistons...they do nothing but rob power.
and the girdle thing has been proven....just not much talk about it, one of those kinds of things
07-24-2006, 08:26 AM
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true about the squirters......i guess i let my preferecene take front seat to everyone else opinion...haha
and hte girdle thing..i'll have to look. but, it's just your basic windage losses, been discussed MANY times in the all-motor forum
and hte girdle thing..i'll have to look. but, it's just your basic windage losses, been discussed MANY times in the all-motor forum
07-24-2006, 08:33 AM
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Re: (boosted94cx)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boosted94cx »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">and hte girdle thing..i'll have to look. but, it's just your basic windage losses, been discussed MANY times in the all-motor forum</TD></TR></TABLE>
I can understand the girdle thing when it comes to an All-motor car, but with a turbo motor I dont think its going to make that much of a difference to be honest.
I can understand the girdle thing when it comes to an All-motor car, but with a turbo motor I dont think its going to make that much of a difference to be honest.