GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories
 

Seems like a lot of the "fast guys" are going with the GS-R head over the B16A head. What's the deal behind this? I understand the advantages of quench pads, but would the higher port on the GS-R be better for flow when using really aggressive lift cams? I've seen flow charts and the B16A head flows better at low-mid valve lift than the GS-R (measured up to .500 lift). Just trying to understand the differences between the two heads, performance-wise, and different levels of power.

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (CheezeFrog)
 

I feel the only benefit is more compression simply swapping to a GSR head. The tests I have seen also favor the B16A head, Factory Honda even went with a B16A casting for the Integra Type R and Civic Type R so they knew a little something huh? I will let head proting gurus like Brad aka MAX_CFM and HEAD come into this and give their opinions. I believe Brad actually prefers the GSR head though if I rmember correctly talking to him at the track.

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (Boostfed)
 

There was a real good thread on this a while back, with earl/nineseccrx showing flow charts. The b16 outflowed the gsr head, the other ongoing debate was in compression favoring the gsr head. Maybe the big dogs can give us soem good info, and maybe a link to the old thread https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (Boostfed)
 

I think earl had posted some comparison results a while back

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (B18Flip)
 

Well the word out there is people get a b16 head over a b18 one, due to the apparent better flow, or maybe because of the cheaper price?!

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (TotalBoost)
 

If I remember correctly, that chart showed that the B16 actually only outflowed the C1 head by a marginal amount, and infact the C1 head outflowed the B16 through mid-rpm range.

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (VTC_CiViC)
 

Here is info from Alaniz Technologies the head porter for Erick Aguilar's record setting all motor car

http://www.alaniztechnologies.....html

And some articles also

http://www.alaniztechnologies.....html

http://www.alaniztechnologies.....html

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (Boostfed)
 

people dont usually recommend you port and polish on a turbo setup , my question on a turbo setup which would be better, seems like there is alot of quick gsr turbo setups out there, but i plan on going with b18c bottom and b16 head setup

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (igotyofire)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by igotyofire &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">people dont usually recommend you port and polish on a turbo setup , my question on a turbo setup which would be better, seems like there is alot of quick gsr turbo setups out there, but i plan on going with b18c bottom and b16 head setup</TD></TR></TABLE>
It is not so much that people say they don't recommend port and polsihing your head because it can be expensive with , some feel gains are minimal, where on forced induction instead of spending $1000+ on PnP a head you can turn the boost up by 2-3psi and get the same results FREE. But however you look at it, you will gain more power with a properly ported head and still able to turn the boost up, it is only when you are going all out that people feel it is needed. When you need every little advantantage. Also on the topic of cams people feel the same way. Brad aka MAX_CFM states his headwork is good for 56whp on a turbo app so go figure it is worth it! All Motor guys need every bit of help as possible and don't have the simplicity as turn up the boost if they need more power, so CAMS and HEADWORK become a MAJOR MAJOR NEED for them. When you get competitive and the difference in set ups is a .1-.2 of second then that headwork and cams then may be needed for the turbo apps. Headwork will definately not HURT a turbo set up as long as it was done properly and not hogged out like the old V8 days. https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/embeer.gif My own set up has a mild PnP job and makes decent dyno numbers for a B16A

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (igotyofire)
 

I'm running a fully built b18c block with stock b16 head(ef1 valve springs and retainers, gsr cams). I'm just finished broke-in the motor. I'm in a process of putting in a turbo kit(SC61E, inline-pro manifold, xs intercooler). I'll find out what kind of number I'll get with this combination. I'll post the dyno chart in about a couple of weeks.

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (Boostfed)
 

Very well put boostfed, there no doubt a P & P will help flow, but for the high price tazg, power can be foudn elswhere like tuning, standalone, ect... Just turn upo the boost if you can https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (Boostfed)
 

anyone want to trade me a GSR head for a B16 head i have?

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (FFgeoff)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by FFgeoff &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">anyone want to trade me a GSR head for a B16 head i have?</TD></TR></TABLE>
Geoff, fill us in on the secret! https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif Why do all the fast guys seem to be moving to the GS-R head? I don't know, but that's what I've been observing, and don't ask me to cite any specific examples because I can't really remember that well lol https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...es/emsmile.gif I guess the flow charts on Alaniztech don't lie -- stock GS-R outflows B16 at higher valve lift... But is it really as simple as that? Granted those charts were flowed at 10" of H2O. Do the same rules apply when there's 3 times the pressure and volume of air rushing through the intake ports? I dunno.

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (VTC_CiViC)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTC_CiViC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">If I remember correctly, that chart showed that the B16 actually only outflowed the C1 head by a marginal amount, and infact the C1 head outflowed the B16 through mid-rpm range.</TD></TR></TABLE>

that is exactly the way i look at it too. I would like a final aswer so that we can put this to rest.

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (CheezeFrog)
 

go away..all this is going to turn into is a fight https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif
joo all suck im gonna use a d15 head on my built motor https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif

j/k's.

this is some good info
but personally i like the b16 head better...maybe im biased ..i dunno https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (SiRkid)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by SiRkid &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">go away..all this is going to turn into is a fight https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif
joo all suck im gonna use a d15 head on my built motor https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif

j/k's.

this is some good info
but personally i like the b16 head better...maybe im biased ..i dunno https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif</TD></TR></TABLE>
OH come on get OUTTA HERE!!!!!!!! Everyone knows you can't use a D15 head on a B series! https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emhammer.gif LS head on a VTEC Block is where it's at y0!!!!!!!! https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emwink.gif

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (CheezeFrog)
 

maybe it is not just about flow volume.

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (DIRep972)
 

What other characteristics are there? Hmm I guess there's charge velocity and uh.. what's that term to describe how smooth the air is. Laminar/Turbulent? I woulda thought that volume in terms of CFM would be the most important though. I'm just trying to decide which head to go with -- anything has gotta be better than my LS https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (CheezeFrog)
 

so say your using your head and ur gsr,b16 cams which were only ment to rev to 8k? but you want to rev it higher becuase say you have a big size turbo, will simply upgrading the valvetrain to rev higher create more power by revving higher on a turbo setup? or do u need to get turbo cams along with that becuase it seems many are just keeping stock cams.

same with LS which only revs 7200 i belive, alot of them are going with smaller turbos then people with the vtec heads unless they have resleeved and bored out.

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (CheezeFrog)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by CheezeFrog &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">What other characteristics are there? Hmm I guess there's charge velocity and uh.. what's that term to describe how smooth the air is. Laminar/Turbulent? I woulda thought that volume in terms of CFM would be the most important though. I'm just trying to decide which head to go with -- anything has gotta be better than my LS https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just like building a turbo set up; head porting is all about the right combination. I dunno the answer but I know when Larry ports head's he does it w/ "quality" in mind, not just quantity. You could get a hollow tube to flow alot of volume but it wouldn't make ur car accelerate faster.

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (igotyofire)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by igotyofire &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so say your using your head and ur gsr,b16 cams which were only ment to rev to 8k? but you want to rev it higher becuase say you have a big size turbo, will simply upgrading the valvetrain to rev higher create more power by revving higher on a turbo setup? or do u need to get turbo cams along with that becuase it seems many are just keeping stock cams.</TD></TR></TABLE>

Will you gain more power by simply reving more? The common sense answer (or at least to me) is no. Cams dictate where your power is made, so if a specific cam in a specific engine (say B16) is designed to peak power at 7600rpm, simply revving it higher won't increase power production since you've now passes the effeciency threshold where those cams operate at their best under a given set of cirumstances. This is where cam timing on the fly comes in handy https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Of course, this is just my "off the wall" theory so who knows how unaccurate is really is https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (VTC_CiViC)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by VTC_CiViC &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

Will you gain more power by simply reving more? The common sense answer (or at least to me) is no. Cams dictate where your power is made, so if a specific cam in a specific engine (say B16) is designed to peak power at 7600rpm, simply revving it higher won't increase power production since you've now passes the effeciency threshold where those cams operate at their best under a given set of cirumstances. This is where cam timing on the fly comes in handy https://honda-tech.com/forums/images/smilies/emthup.gif

Of course, this is just my "off the wall" theory so who knows how unaccurate is really is https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif</TD></TR></TABLE>

well i realize that in NA motor aspect, im going to make another thread, dont want to threadjack, https://honda-tech.com/zero...id=16

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (igotyofire)
 

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by igotyofire &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

well i realize that in NA motor aspect, im going to make another thread, dont want to threadjack, https://honda-tech.com/zero...id=16</TD></TR></TABLE>

dead link https://honda-tech.com/forums/images...s/emsmilep.gif

Re: GS-R vs. B16A head, flow theories (Charlie Moua)
 

does anyone know the difference in intake duration between the two heads?