iamthefollower

I was just wondering. I've been doing some research on this turbo and just trying to figure out, how much power is this turbo capable of making?? I have searched and gotten different answers, but someone had told me they did everything they could manage with the motor and was only capable of 260whp out of it. The reason I am trying to find out though is because we are about to build a b16 turbo and my friend has one of these turbo's he got pretty cheap. He's going to rebuild it and was going to throw it on so we wanna know what we're looking at with this turbo.. Thank you in advanced.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Well, Let's go in order of a couple of things, ok?

1) Greddy 18G - This particular turbo is a Mitsubishi / Garrett hybrid that was created in a way that Greddy intended for its own mission; streetable power in a compact package that was usable to the stock engine. That being said, the way that this particular turbo was configured was designed to have some limitations for it. The answers that you're getting are varied because you're talking to people that use a standard 18G on applications that are over 2 Pressure ratios with a different turbine wheel than the Greddy. The 18G compressor wheel is 41lbs/min and is capable of about 340whp or so. The reason why the GReddy version is a bit less is for 2 reasons. 1) the turbine housing is a garrett turbine housing that uses a very limiting internal wastegate, flapper door (that exits by-passed exhaust gases, and 2) a low pressure wastegate. This is to keep the turbo within the emission/CARB regulations that they stipulated to when they came out with the kit. When you compare this version to the Subie and DSM guys, you get different results because they do not have the limited factors designed in their housings and platforms.

2) Downpipe "adapter" and downpipe - An additional reason as to why you're seeing perhaps about 260whp is because of the restrictive downpipe adapter and downpipe. The original adapter and downpipe on the kit were only 2". Very restrictive. The adapter needed to be ported and smoothed out (if you planned to use it). Others got around the restriction by getting an internally gated 5 bolt downpipe flange (remember, the GReddy version is a HYBRID Mitsu/Garrett,) in which a Garrett turbine flange would be used to make a custom downpipe for the turbo. That, in conjunction with a modified wastegate system can easily yield an additional 40-80 hp out of the turbocharger, because now you're able to run more boost and put the turbo better into its efficiency range which is from 14-21psi (I know that sounds high, but you must remember, Mitsubishi turbochargers are Very efficient on what honda guys would consider "high boost" applications that better fit its efficiency range of over 2 Pressure ratios.

3) Change up. What you need to do in order to extract more power out of the turbocharger is to A) either get a higher spring wastegate actuator, and bore open the wastegate hole in the turbine housing itself, and replace the flapper door, or B) weld the flapper door shut and convert the turbocharger to run off of an external wastegate. That may depend upon the manifold you plan to use, but I will say that the GReddy exhaust manifold will take anything that the 18G throws out, so you're ok there. If you DO plan to use something else, please remember that the turbine housing is a T25 flange (again Garrett Hybrid.. don't confuse it from the flange the DSM guys use, they don't match) so find a weld flange to use to make your manifold that is a T25. ATP turbo has those weld flanges available.

Bottom line; The turbo is very capable for a basic 220-270whp application out of the box, but in order to extract more out of it, some modifications have to be performed.

Hope this was at least a little helpful.. Good luck

iamthefollower

Thank you very much TheShodan. We're just looking to make a little street car to play with.. We were just wanting to know the capabilities on the turbo so we would know what all we had ahead of us so we could build the b16 to put in my friends HF Crx, we were just mainly looking to try and reach 300whp to play with.. However you said something about welding the flapper door shut and convert it to an external wastegate... when I had asked that to a guy here in my town, he said that I wouldn't be able to do that and that it would not be good on the turbo to even try. We are having to rebuild this turbo because of the seals in it being bad anyways, so we were going to check into making the turbo run from an external wastegate, but my friend was thinking just running the internal wastegate on it. I am just trying to get all the options from this turbo to really see what all other options are for it and your answer was very helpful, again thank you very much .

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Your friend is incorrect. The Internal gate to external conversion has been done successfully down to a science. We do that all the time on our Subaru turbochargers. Again, if you plan on attempting 300whp on the internal gate, you'll need to upgrade the actuator, and modify the wastegate hole and flapper door so that boost won't fluctuate. You'll have difficulty achieve that goal with this turbo otherwise.

iamthefollower

awesome, thank you very much TheShodan, that's all I needed to know .

DC2junkie

Hey im kinda a noob here when it comes to turbos, i got a 2000 integra GS-R with a stock b18c1 motor. Now i live in cali and yes i know that most ppl just say to leave it stock if ur trying to meet smog regs. BUT i hear that there are two kits that pass smog, and thats this one and the edelbrock 1510 (for the gsr 96-01). If im not mistaken. So i have a couple questions with regards to this the greddy kit. and the reason why im comparing it to the edelbrock is because, the cheapest i can find that kit for is $4,195 and plus shipping and tax its like $4,600, and i got like $4000 total to spend on kit and installation. I found the greddy kit ona site for about $2,500 which is more in my price range.

1)This kit IS 50 state legal right? does the discontinuation of this kit have anything to do with failing smog regulation?

2)since the kit doesnt come with a intercooler like the edelbrock, how much power and performance am i going to lose if i install without the an intercooler and add one in later?

3)Is the kit pretuned? the edelbrock is pretuned to 6-7psi, and therefore needs no additional tuning to my understanding. If not, someone told me i need a dino sesh to tune it properly and that a sesh costs like $300?!

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

1) This and Edlebrock were the only ones that were truly 50 state legal. Once you add a BOV and intercooler, it is no longer 50 state legal (its stupid, but that's how it works)

2) You would simply purchase the intercooler separately. You will not run it without an intercooler. in California, with your bad gas over there, there will be nothing but detonating heat in driving it without one, so don't even put that into your head. If you find a complete kit, get an intercooler too.

3) Only with the GReddy kits that were new. Now that they are discontinued, you would have to find separate management in order to run the system properly. For edlebrock, they came with a pretuned ECU management, but was very conservative.

Trying to get 50 state legal kits now are a bit of a waste for the cost, since there are only certain components that allow one to be able to use a turbocharger in California (that's the state those companies were most worried about).

Because of the change in the aftermarket for turbochargers and their kit components, honestly, the only "50 state kit" available now, is the one without a turbocharger at all; if you're worried about 50 state legality, stay NA.

LightningTeg

The edelbrok Performer X kit is a bit more complete and is 50 state legal. Comes with an IC too IIRC.

DC2junkie

So you cant run without an intercooler? i had talked to a couple ppl and they say that you CAN run without an intercooler, you just arent running efficiently. And i had read on another forum that this kit comes pretuned.

Also since the addition of the intercooler and the BOV make the kit illegal, someone on another forum said that if you get the carb sticker, then install that the smog guy will most likely not say anything, what are the chances that he does?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

For your purposes of understanding using a turbocharger, NO, you cannot run without an intercooler. You're right, its less efficient if you don't....meaning you'll blow it up.

That's just so you can get by most SMOG people as a matter of avoiding the REAL smog *****. Since many other states don't even have these emissions, its subject to the area you are in. You asked about being legal, not how to avoid getting caught being illegal. What can i tell ya.

nealnanoHX

I had a TDO5H-R turbo off an Evo and it had the waste gate flap wielded and the actuator removed for running and external waste gate. This totally safe on the turbo and in fact is better because you can control boost and boost creep much better with an external. More power can also be made because you now can increase boost.

Freshdot

made 374whp on a fully built SOHC with the 18G.

this guy makes me a bit sick as well:

http://www.d-series.org/forums/force...hp-260-tq.html

DC2junkie

yeah but im looking for something smog legal in cali, unless i can find someone to cheat my smog

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

You need someone to help cheat you in smog, even with a legal kit.. without that sticker, you're done.

DC2junkie

well i could get the sticker, the issue is jus putting something together that wont blow my engine up and still pass smog.

since the greddy kit doesnt come with a intercooler and BOV, if i just got the edelbrock could i jus pretty much plug and play with that and get a sticker and be good to go? or are there other problems?

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

Since they are still available from Edlebrock, sure.. why not?

nealnanoHX

Yeah the Edlebrock turbo kit is pretty much your only choice for a half way decent and complete turbo kit that is street legal in Cali.
You could put the kit on get is inspected, slap on your CARB sticker then once its all good get a P28 ECU and Hondata, a boost controller and bigger injectors than the kit comes with and have the boost turned up and retuned to get more power. Then when it comes time for inspection just put all the Edlebrock parts back on. Quick and easy way to go from street legal to more power but still be legalish.

Freshdot

Shodan, can you elaborate on that link I posted from D-series? I find it a little silly that he made 300whp on a 15G @ 18psi, while I struggled to reach 374 with an 18G @ 22psi on a fully built D16z6 with a 2.4 bisi cam.

TheShodan

iTrader: (14)

He barely made a touch close to 300whp, before it dropped back down. There's nothing silly about it. it was completely maxed out at that point. What you made is very good for 41lbs/min at2PR on an 18G. you're fine.

Freshdot

ah thank you sir!