cxjon

greddy blue box or e manage, which one is better to run the greddy kit on obd1 sohc car?

beerbongskickass

chipped ecu > e-manage > blue box

cxjon

i understand the chipped ecu part but i really want to know more info on the two i listed

beerbongskickass

Sorry my bad...

e-manage > blue box

t04ecvc

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Sorry my bad...

e-manage &gt; blue box</TD></TR></TABLE>

Hahah, beerbong , you always make my day with your posts.

cxjon

i was told by another h-t'er that the blue box is better then the e manage, so i was wondering what other people thought

beerbongskickass

I guess I could elaborate a bit. I really don't know too much about the e-manage or blue box and I have never used either. Basically you can't really do much with the blue box, you just hook it up and that's about it, kinda like an FMU. With the e-manage you can run larger injectors and fiddle with things, so I am guessing you could get a much better tune with this, but it's a lot more expensive. The e-manage is basically like the AFC hack though and it just tricks your car, so there are better options. Umm try searching if you want better info because I'm sure this has been covered a lot.

cxjon

anyone else?

MooreBoost

In order to make E-manage worth while you have to spend so much on accessories that it makes it more expensive than Hondata, and it is no where near Hondata.

splitime

Honestly, listen to beerbongs and go the chipped ecu route. Its worlds cheaper than both the box and e-manange and gives you complete control.

Think of it as almost free hondata.

Chipped = "standalone" ecu
e-manage = piggyback with some tuning abilities
blue box = piggyback, reads signals and adds shitloads of fuel.

cxjon

i am getting a greddy turbo kit so i was wondering what was better.....

MooreBoost

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cxjon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i am getting a greddy turbo kit so i was wondering what was better..... </TD></TR></TABLE>

If this is a random statement, fine.

But if you are asking another question, then we have answered it numerous times before.

Beerbong said it best, uberdata &gt; e-manage &gt; blue box.

Uberdata is free, and has the most control. E-manage is stupid expensive and isn't that great at all. The blue box is cheap, and effective, but wont make any power.

el arbi

Uberdata over both of them.

cxjon

uberdata might be a problem because of my ecu.... i have a small body jdm po8, its 2/3rds the size of a p28. i went with that ecu for the ease of wiring because my ecu and harness runs a one wire o2. i am not buying the emanage, it is coming wth the kit. if i sold it off and picked up a blue box i will have extra cash.

BauleyCivic

Blue box will be good up to about 7 psi, otherwise you'll run lean. Ricey McRicerton runs 10psi with the greddy kit on e-manage that he tuned himself...hit him up with a PM.

boostincoupe

*enter the Devil's Advocate/other side of the Uberdata argument*

Different strokes for different folks, my friend.

Some people like to fiddle with their car's fuel and ignition settings, install a wideband to monitor A/F ratios throughout the RPM range, and get on a dyno and fine-tune their ignition settings so they have the best possible turbo setup they can.

Let's break down the REAL costs of "free" Uberdata, shall we?

-the right ECU. In cxjon's case, he has a 1-wire o2 sensor p08 setup, instead of a 4-wire o2 setup for a P28 and the like. I don't know much about that kind of stuff, but what I do know is that he would need to convert his ECU setup, whether it be in the form of a new harness, ECU, whatever. So if your ECU setup isn't fully ready for uberdata, whether you're OBD-II like a lot of us or you have cxjon's problem of a different wiring setup, you have to buy stuff.

The ECU needs to be chipped and socketed. Some people can do it on their own and save money; a lot of people can't (myself included). They either lack the tools, knowledge or guts to risk messing up a good ECU. Whatever the reason, it can be done for a reasonable price by a friend or shop. I'm not sure of exact prices, so we'll say... $240 total for the socketed, chipped P28 ECU and OBD-II to OBD-I conversion harness.

-okay, now your car's ready for uberdata, right? Wrong. You have to buy a chip burner so you can burn different setups onto your ECU. That's about $80, give or take.

-alright, the basemap is burned onto the chip and your car starts and runs (rough, but it runs). Are you done? No. You have to tune it now. You have two options: spend $300 on a wideband o2 sensor and street tune it yourself to perfection (assuming you know how to tune), or hit the local dyno. If you're lucky, you can find a Mustang dyno which is a load-bearing dyno, and can help simulate real driving loads so you can tune partial-throttle as well as WOT (this is crucial in a street car, as you spend a lot of time in partial-throttle). But if you're like me and a lot of other people, a Dynojet is the only option. The local Dynojets we have are non load-bearing dynos, which make it impossible to tune partial-throttle without doing some street tuning. The point I'm trying to make is whether you do it yourself or pay a shop, you're going to spend about $300-400 tuning your setup to perfection.

I'll cut you Uberdata nerds a break and not include the cost of a laptop, which is needed for street tuning if you're trying to "save money" DIY.

I'm sure there are cheaper ways to setup Uberdata, there always are hookups in this industry. But for the average joe like me, who isn't a hardcore tunearboi (like J. Davis ), the concept of a chipped ECU setup is confusing and expensive. What if something goes wrong? you have to know how to troubleshoot and have the patience and technical know-how of working with electronics in general, and ECUs in particular, OR have deep pockets for someone else to fix the problem (Heaven forbid there is one).

Is all that worth it? Maybe, depends on the person. But let's look at the other side of the spectrum: Piggyback systems, or "band-aids" as the tuner gods of this forum like to address them as.

Here's a short list of some:
-greddy blue box (I'm running this).
-greddy e-manage.
-AFC hack.
-FMU (I used to run this).

All of the following systems have drawbacks, one of them being that there is no control of ignition timing. Now, while this is a valid concern, IN MY OPINION (contest it all you want), for a LOW BOOST, LOW POWER (read: &lt;200whp, or in this case (greddy SOHC kit), 10 psi) setup for a daily driver, retarding the base ignition timing at the distributor 1-4 degrees is a safe enough measure to prevent running too much ignition timing under boost, as stock Honda ECU's tend to do .

I'm not going to discuss the other 3 methods I have listed (AFC hack, FMU, emanage) much, as I do not have much experience with them. However, I know that the AFC hack has a serious ignition recurve issue, as J. Davis discussed in depth (someone go find his thread), so I wouldn't highly recommend that. My experience with the FMU was shitty; I only ran it for a week, and at 5 psi, stock exhaust, clutch, timing, pump, etc. - so my car was probably only making 130whp at the time.

But what I would like to focus on is the Greddy blue box. I'm sick and tired of people recommending relatively expensive chipped ECU/standalone setups to people looking to run 5-10 psi on a greddy kit, or something small like that.

How does the greddy blue box work? Basically, it utilizes the stock Honda fuel system, including injectors, fuel pump, OBD-II ECU, harness, etc. You just take a stock car, bolt on the greddy kit (or whatever low-boost setup you want to run) and wire in the blue box to your stock ECU harness. It lengthens the injector pulsewidth when the MAP sensor reads boost, making the car run rich up to a certain level of boost/WHP. For example, we all know that stock 240cc civic injectors max out at 190-200whp at about 45-50psi fuel pressure. So if you're running 5 psi with the greddy blue box, you're running rich as hell and making about 150-165whp depending on your motor condition, and assuming you're running open downpipe. However, when you're running about 7-8 psi and making 180-190whp (like racerage1 on this forum), your AF ratio is in the high 12's, low 13's under boost; this is dangerous. At this point, upgrade your fuel pump or run prelude 290cc injectors for 9-12 psi so you don't run lean under boost.

The thing about the blue box is that there's nothing to tune. To some people, that's bad, as they want control over various aspect of the car's tuning system to optimize everything they can. Then there's a lot of people who just want a quick car and don't want to mess around with tuning, and just want a DECENT running car that they don't have to fine-tune all the time. There's nothing to tune with the blue box; if you keep your boost low (read: under 9 psi on the greddy kit), there's no need to upgrade your fuel pump or injectors. And for safety, just retard your distributor a few degrees to prevent detonation under boost. Plus, these units can be had for around $50.

Holy **** I just typed a lot.

CLIFFS: "Band-aids" ain't so bad.

MooreBoost

Sell it and run Uberdata.

MooreBoost

Boostin coupe makes some good points, but even though you may end up paying that much, you still have just as much control as Hondata, which could end up running you 800 bucks.

In the end it's all pretty relative.

boostincoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by tegunderpressure &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Boostin coupe makes some good points, but even though you may end up paying that much, you still have just as much control as Hondata, which could end up running you 800 bucks.

In the end it's all pretty relative.</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what I'm trying to say.

Not everyone needs a perfectly tuned race car for the street.

Some of us (actually a lot) just want a quick, turn-key car for low-boost daily driving. The blue box is perfect for that. I've been running it for a year and a half now, and it's not perfect - but ****, my car's fairly quick for having a $50 reliable fuel management setup on it, and you can't deny that! Cars running Uberdata are going to make about the same power at the same boost level (maybe a few more due to fine tuning), but I still get 30-32MPG with a lot of boosting.

cxjon

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cxjon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">uberdata might be a problem because of my ecu.... i have a small body jdm po8, its 2/3rds the size of a p28. i went with that ecu for the ease of wiring because my ecu and harness runs a one wire o2. i am not buying the emanage, it is coming wth the kit. if i sold it off and picked up a blue box i will have extra cash. </TD></TR></TABLE>
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">-the right ECU. In cxjon's case, he has a 1-wire o2 sensor p08 setup, instead of a 4-wire o2 setup for a P28 and the like. I don't know much about that kind of stuff, but what I do know is that he would need to convert his ECU setup, whether it be in the form of a new harness, ECU, whatever. So if your ECU setup isn't fully ready for uberdata, whether you're OBD-II like a lot of us or you have cxjon's problem of a different wiring setup, you have to buy stuff.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

I never heard or seen of a chipped po8 ecu i talked to a shop the does hondadata chipping they said they never tried and said to to get a p28. they knew of my ecu and said it is to small and might not work trying to chip. if i get a p28 i need to wire for a 4 wire ecu and thats a bit hard for me since i am color blind

boostincoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by cxjon &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">


I never heard or seen of a chipped po8 ecu i talked to a shop the does hondadata chipping they said they never tried and said to to get a p28. they knew of my ecu and said it is to small and might not work trying to chip

</TD></TR></TABLE>

That's what I meant. You need to buy a new ECU.

cxjon

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by boostincoupe &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

That's what I meant. You need to buy a new ECU.</TD></TR></TABLE>\


i was stating for everyone else

i was wondering what people thought of each that use them. i am leaning towards selling emanage and picking up a blue box.... emanage sells i seen for 100ish or more

beerbongskickass

boostincoupe you need to get with the times man... it's almost 2005! Technology is growing pretty fast and it's a lot easier than you think to get your ECU chipped and running on a free ROM editor. I say the more people that know about it the better. I always encourage people to look into this option because it's usually cheaper, always better, and much safer than FMU's or hacks. Lots of people are willing to help others learn how to socket, create basemaps, tune, etc... or they will even do it for you for a small price. Hell, if enough people start chipping their owns ECU's all you will need to do is list your setup and then download maps for your car to get it runing right, then you will just need a little fine tuning. The FMU's and hacks have had their time... let's think towards the future.

boostincoupe

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beerbongskickass &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">boostincoupe you need to get with the times man... it's almost 2005! Technology is growing pretty fast and it's a lot easier than you think to get your ECU chipped and running on a free ROM editor. I say the more people that know about it the better. I always encourage people to look into this option because it's usually cheaper, always better, and much safer than FMU's or hacks. Lots of people are willing to help others learn how to socket, create basemaps, tune, etc... or they will even do it for you for a small price. Hell, if enough people start chipping their owns ECU's all you will need to do is list your setup and then download maps for your car to get it runing right, then you will just need a little fine tuning. The FMU's and hacks have had their time... let's think towards the future. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Get with the times?

Think towards the future? Who's future? Racers? Tunearbois?

What about people who just want a quick, low-boost daily driven car and don't want to tune? People who are more concerned with doing their everyday routine and have other, more important things going on than working on their engine management system.

A lot of people like things to be plug and play, and are willing to sacrifice a few HP for the sake of simplicity. I am one of those people, and I apologize to no one for it.

MooreBoost

It will be much more than "a few hp" in many, many applications.