Hites

i know theres a ton of post with people asking the difference between the two, but mine is a little more specific. i ask that turbo people dont immediately support turbos and the same goes for the sc supporters. i want to know which would be the best choice; the car is an automatic 95 integra ls, going to be running on 6 psi of boost, daily driven, do an equal amount of drag and autox. my two choices are a complete greddy intercooled turbo kit, a b18c jrsc modified for a b18b, or an lht performance intercooled jrsc. odds are that ill be buying a used one. heres what i want to be considered:

price
peak horsepower after installation
peak torque after installation
peak boost rpm
reliability
complication of installation
maintenance
engine temp
engine life

i had been dead set on getting a jrsc, but i have just now recently considered getting a greddy turbo. im looking for an unbiased on opinon on all of the choices and i hope someone can help me.

R6Elmo

I've owened a supercharged mr2, and 3 different turbo vehicles including my b18b.

Your have good questions, but for the driving you are doing which is daily/auto-x, peak power isn't everything. You want to consdier the curve first and foremost. it's teh area below the curve that matters most.

In this respect, a supercharger kit is very good for great throttle response. It's like having a v8 back there. A turbo kit is reponsive, but it's a tad laggy. You won't get full boost as quickly as you would in an s/c car. Some turbocharged vehicles will drive as if they have no lag (my rx7 didn't have any), but a turbo b18 will have some lag unless ou go with a very small turbo.

The postive side of turbos is that upgradabily is fantastic. many parts, and many ways to get more power.

cost: brand new for brand new, they are probally about the same.

Good luck man. I hope that helps some.

Danny

jinxproof99

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hites &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">i know theres a ton of post with people asking the difference between the two, but mine is a little more specific. i ask that turbo people dont immediately support turbos and the same goes for the sc supporters. i want to know which would be the best choice; the car is an automatic 95 integra ls, going to be running on 6 psi of boost, daily driven, do an equal amount of drag and autox. my two choices are a complete greddy intercooled turbo kit, a b18c jrsc modified for a b18b, or an lht performance intercooled jrsc. odds are that ill be buying a used one. heres what i want to be considered:

price
peak horsepower after installation
peak torque after installation
peak boost rpm
reliability
complication of installation
maintenance
engine temp
engine life

i had been dead set on getting a jrsc, but i have just now recently considered getting a greddy turbo. im looking for an unbiased on opinon on all of the choices and i hope someone can help me.</TD></TR></TABLE>

how much are you looking to spend??? if you are spending around 3000, you would be much better off and turn better numbers in both drag and autox if you were to do a b16 or gsr manual tranny swap and a vtec head for your b18b. seriously. you then, have a much better platform to work off of if you decide to do more later, but i'm telling you, your 3000 would be better spent elsewhere than on an auto 6psi s/c'er or greddy kit.

ps......i have owned multiple turbo/motor set ups, a jrsc @ 8psi, and an allmotor ls/vtec.

quikB18B

If your doing alot of auto xing then i would say eihter a supercharger or a small quick spooling turbo would work, but thiers a couple things that i see not helpiong you

1) you have an ls/ls tranny and automatic at that, this is a long geared tranny= not good for autocrossing, you would want ashort geared tranny to be very competitive.
2) I personally would modify an automatic ls, 75% of the people end up doing a conversion anyways, but if you ask me it's overpriced, not worth it,a dn alot of work

Hites

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by quikB18B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">2) I personally would modify an automatic ls, 75% of the people end up doing a conversion anyways, but if you ask me it's overpriced, not worth it,a dn alot of work </TD></TR></TABLE>

being a poor man looking for big numbers sucks . so whats the general consensus? jrsc or greddy?

xtal

If money is an issue, do it custom and do it yourself - if it breaks on you and you bought it as a kit, you probably have no chance of getting it repaired on budget.

beefpigs

I thought about it too but for the money you will spend, the end hp you gain is very little. A s/c adds 25% more hp (someone correct me if I'm wrong) so that means your ls will have 175 hp after the install (that's to the fly wheel so around 140 whp). If you get a good t3 turbo (quick spool) you can get 225 hp (180 whp) for around the same cash.

I'm not going to tell you which one to get, just consider all the facts....and believe me, this isn't all of them but I thought I'd give my .02

Hites

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by beefpigs &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I thought about it too but for the money you will spend, the end hp you gain is very little. A s/c adds 25% more hp (someone correct me if I'm wrong) so that means your ls will have 175 hp after the install (that's to the fly wheel so around 140 whp). If you get a good t3 turbo (quick spool) you can get 225 hp (180 whp) for around the same cash.

I'm not going to tell you which one to get, just consider all the facts....and believe me, this isn't all of them but I thought I'd give my .02</TD></TR></TABLE>

jrsc m62 makes around 40% extra ponies and the m45 makes around 30%-35% extra ponies with each at 6 psi.

i thought the greddy spooled quicker than the t3; am i wrong?

Hites

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by quikB18B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">1) you have an ls/ls tranny and automatic at that, this is a long geared tranny= not good for autocrossing, you would want ashort geared tranny to be very competitive. </TD></TR></TABLE>

is that a nod toward sc or turbo?

quikB18B

a JRSC gsr generally makes about 225 whp, with a good power band, but a little short up top. Turbo gsr generally with 7 psi will make around 260whp, ive seens ome as much as 275. Ls turbo on 8-9 psi usually makes in the 225 range, and now poeple are taking stock ls turbo closer and closer to 290-300 with hondata/stock motor. A Ls Supercharged i would think would make power around 190's-200

Like i said the best bang for the buck thing you could do is sell the car and then start with a good/solid platform. Remember you can buy the best parts, but i beleive a good platform to start is just as important. Ive owned 1 nitrous car, supercharged car, and im on my second turbo car. I would never go any other route other than turbo, but read my signature. Thats what turbo really means.

keebler65

either way that auto tranny is going to rob you of a lot of power.

quikB18B

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hites &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

is that a nod toward sc or turbo?</TD></TR></TABLE>

Well your original post says that you will be doing an equal amount of both autox/drag. I say pick one and build your setup to be most efficient at what you do. Either way if you went autoxing route, I dont imagine a automatic turbo or supercharged integra would be the best route to go.

My supercharged b20 vtec was quick/good instant spool, but when i started getting pulled up top i couldnt take it and i knew turbo was for me. These days more and more people are just peicing together kits, so you can buy the optimum parts that you want to suit your goals/needs/budget.

To answer your question i may be a little biased, but I have had both setups and i never regreted going turbo.

Hites

so this is what ive gathered so far:

price=tie
peak horsepower after installation=turbo
peak torque after installation=not discussed yet
peak boost rpm=sc
reliability=not discussed yet
complication of installation=not discussed yet
maintenance=not discussed yet
engine temp=not discussed yet
engine life=not discussed yet

it looks like an even tie so far until some of my other concerns are considered.

Hites

just checked prices on a greddy kit and a jrsc. both around the same prices, but if im planning on getting a turbo i want an intercooler. too bad the damn things like $1000. does anybody know of a place that sells a new intercooled greddy kit for the b18b that is less than $3029.98? ive got a rebuilt b18c jrsc with a jr map controller and a vortech sfmu for $1700 that im looking at right now.


Modified by Hites at 10:15 PM 9/15/2003

quikB18B

Here this link will have some good info for you

https://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=254595

Im not extremely familiar with ls JRSC dynos, but example Direp972 Ls Turbo(basic revhard kit, 3" exhuast) made 230/200 on 8.8 psi, ran a 13.3 on bfg drag radials. VEry impressive if you ask me.

Turbo can be just as reliable as any setup. It has alot to do with the owner and how you maintain the car. AS long as you know what your doing, dont get boost happy, make sure your tuned. You should have no problems with turbo.

As far as install goes. The turbo has more parts, so obviosly it takes more time, but i wouldn't say it's any harder than a supercharger install. With 2 people working car it can be done in 6-8 hrs, i don't put atime setting on things liek that because i will take as long as it need to to make sure everything is 100%. I hate messing with belts and brackets during JRSC install. Another thing about supercharger is you doesn't have the potential that turbo has.

Hites

thanks for the link; dont know how i missed it on my search. one of my other major concerns is how much more tuning and maintenance does it require over a sc?

PureTeg420

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hites &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

jrsc m62 makes around 40% extra ponies and the m45 makes around 30%-35% extra ponies with each at 6 psi.
</TD></TR></TABLE>

Just so you know, I have helped a friend take off his old m45, and replaced it with an m62 made for a type R. After the swap he went to the dyno and a hour later he came back with 152whp @ 6psi, which is like 5 more whp then he had before.

Don't waste your money on a JRSC if you plan on sticking with the b18b...this motor in stock form just does not supercharge well.

quikB18B

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hites &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">just checked prices on a greddy kit and a jrsc. both around the same prices, but if im planning on getting a turbo i want an intercooler. too bad the damn things like $1000. does anybody know of a place that sells a new intercooled greddy kit for the b18b that is less than $3029.98? ive got a rebuilt b18c jrsc with a jr map controller and a vortech sfmu for $1700 that im looking at right now.


Modified by Hites at 10:15 PM 9/15/2003</TD></TR></TABLE>

Dude dont spend $3,200 on a greddy kit, 1000k intercooler WTF!!! I pieced mine together and got some baddass parts i spent an exact total of $2482.00 including misc bolts/studs/filter/some welding, ect.... All brand new **** except for a couple non important things. Peicing together a kit is best IMO, its cheaper/better parts/learn more, but if your a turbo noob and don't trust yourself or have someone to guide yoiu then get a good solid kit= revhard, maxrev, ect... The ravhards these days go for like $2800, and maxrev goes for $2800 w/hondata from kyle @ ksmotorsports.

Feel free to im me and i can give you a run down on parts and what the goign rate is for each

Hites

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by quikB18B &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">Dude dont spend $3,200 on a greddy kit, 1000k intercooler WTF!!! I pieced mine together and got some baddass parts i spent an exact total of $2482.00 including misc bolts/studs/filter/some welding, ect.... All brand new **** except for a couple non important things. Peicing together a kit is best IMO, its cheaper/better parts/learn more, but if your a turbo noob and don't trust yourself or have someone to guide yoiu then get a good solid kit= revhard, maxrev, ect... The ravhards these days go for like $2800, and maxrev goes for $2800 w/hondata from kyle @ ksmotorsports.

Feel free to im me and i can give you a run down on parts and what the goign rate is for each </TD></TR></TABLE>

whats the peak boost rpm at a peak boost of 6 psi of the kits you just listed? id rather have a small turbo with almost no lag, than a medium turbo with high hp and tq. what hondata would i need that would go with my auto tranny? yes i am a turbo newb, been spending most of my time learning the jrsc. what did you have to weld? probably my biggest concern after price is reliability; i want something that will last a looong time.

jinxproof99

maybe you did not understand.....or you just wanna be "boosted", ah, whatever. but if you are spending 3 grand on a greddy kit or jrsc for YOUR auto, you are going about it the WRONG way. take it from the experienced.

Hites

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jinxproof99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">maybe you did not understand.....or you just wanna be "boosted", ah, whatever. but if you are spending 3 grand on a greddy kit or jrsc for YOUR auto, you are going about it the WRONG way. take it from the experienced.</TD></TR></TABLE>

thanks for saying whats already been said a billion times. now could we please get back on topic?

jinxproof99

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hites &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

thanks for saying whats already been said a billion times. now could we please get back on topic?</TD></TR></TABLE>

so if thats whats been said a billion times, why do you want to go the other route?? i am not flaming you at all whatsoever, i am just trying to get a feel for where your coming from. then people can help you more.

Hites

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by jinxproof99 &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">so if thats whats been said a billion times, why do you want to go the other route?? i am not flaming you at all whatsoever, i am just trying to get a feel for where your coming from. then people can help you more. </TD></TR></TABLE>

im not going the other route, im going the route ive always been going. now can you answer some of my concerns that i listed in my first post?

jinxproof99

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Hites &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">

im not going the other route, im going the route ive always been going. now can you answer some of my concerns that i listed in my first post?</TD></TR></TABLE>


turbo is ALWAYS better. much easier to upgrade. the supercharger with your auto tranny will suck *** just alittle more than the turbo.

SiRkid

auto= sucks bad.
manual swap! and turbo.