Yellow Dragon

I'm thinking hard about picking up a used JRSC for my hatch. I've read a lot of negative feedback over the years. The reason I'm leaning towards sc over turbo is for AutoX specific. I race Street Mod and I really want to beat a Supra that keeps owning me.

Also, tell me what to expect and/or looking for a used JRSC.

Thanks,
Todd

ekb18c

If you pick the right size turbo then it will be just fine at auto-x. If you mate the proper turbo to with your motor then there isn't going to much lag at all if it's done right. Think about it, look at most of the high hp prototype cars out there and see what they run. They ain't running a SC for sure.

Used JRSC expect headaches because of misc. parts missing.

fredtoast

When buying a used jrsc make sure you get everything you need to make it run properly. Just like with turbo you will need a way to control the fuel and timing. The jrsc kit includes a Boost Timing Control, and a MAP controller (plus high pressure fuel pump) to control the fuel. If you boost more than the base 6 psi then you will need larger injectors and a different fuel control system. The BTC is adjustible and will work for higher boost. Hondata controls both fuel and timing. Since it looks like your car is already OBDI then hondata wouldn't be that expensive. Since this is more than a daily driver I would recommend Hondata. You can run safely with other systems, but the hondata will give you a few more horses.

If you are going to increase boost then use a step pulley or larger crank pulley. The smaller blower pullies have less surface area contact with the belt, so they are more likely to slip.

The jrsc blowers are warranteed for 100,000 miles and don't require any regular maintenence. So there shouldn't be any problem there. The only thing that damages them is if they are spun too fast. I'm not sure of the rpm limit, but the boost limit is around 10-11 psi.

Make sure you get the proper size blower for your car.

I've heard people recommend opening up the blower to look at the blades. Apparently there is some sort of coating (teflon?) that can come off of them. I don't know how much this would effect the blower, but it couldn't hurt to look if you have the chance before buying.

metal-x

actually the kit does not include a BTC nor a map contoller jrsc sells them seperately at extra cost you'd be better off getting hondata with 440 injectors

I picked my blower used I researched to make sure I got all the parts nessesary
also watchout for groove marks on the blades

Rory Breaker

Theres a lot to check. First things first, if you get a used kit, expect it to not be complete. There is no such thing as a "complete used kit". Theres just too many miscellaneous bolts, hoses, etc included, and I HIGHLY doubt the person would take the time after taking out the SOB to make sure they have every piece...its way too much. Try and score the kit from someone trustworthy, as they at least will inform you as to what you may need. Expect to make a bunch of trips to Home Depot during the install when you see "mount xxx with the 3 xxx bolts...", with no bolts to show for.

Hopefully youll at least have all the major components/brackets/custom bolts for the kit so you dont have to make an order to JR for a $19 bolt.

When asking for pictures, make sure to get very detailed pictures of the rotors. Make sure the teflon coating isnt peeling off, and there are no deep gouges/scratches in the blades. This is evidence of the charger being run past its efficiency, and very hot for too long, or something getting sucked in the intake and run through the charger.

Spin the blower with your hand and make sure its nice and smooth. Make sure theres no oil leaking around the nose of the charger.

Make sure your kit includes the SC support bracket, and the manifold is not cracked. Early JR kits had manifold cracking problems, and JR resolved the problem by warrantying the manifolds and including a support bracket in the newer kits. Unless you get a kit from the early production days, you should be fine.

JRSCs can be an unbelievable bargain...you can score kits anywhere from $1200-$2000 in great shape. I would bolt on the kit and see how it runs, personally, before getting into any piggyback BS. You'll spend $300 on a BTC, $150 on a map mod...by then youve got Hondata. If you want to maximize potential, increase drivability and get the car running as safe as possible, I would skip the BS and go Hondata. Especially if the car is run hard often.

GreddySi99

I run the vafc hack and 440's and its fine no other bandaids. do some searching and check out hostboard.com under cars truck and hotrods there is forced intergra page there. all the people there are JRSC people and will not tell you TURBO TURBO a JRSC is a good system for some people and don't let anybody tell you anything else!!!

Yellow Dragon

Thanks for all the help people.

I'm still in the early stages of decision making and everyone else keeps saying TURBO TURBO TURBO. Many of them think that with a small turbo I should see no lag. I just don't know that's possible. They also think that an intercooled turbo setup is much more efficient than the JRSC without any type of cooling system.

If some of you remember I have a friend that used to have a JRSC'd GSR that ran excellent here locally. He ran 8 psi and ran a 13.3 on drag radials! His board name here was Mr Rogers.

I do have a few more questions though...

- It sounds like I have my choice of the BTC and MAP mod or I can just go Hondata. Why would I choose one route or the other?
- Do I have to get a bigger fuel pump and injectors? I would like to run 8 psi (isn't that the pulley that comes with the kit for the GSR)?
- Is there a list somewhere of everything I need for the complete kit?

Thanks again.

GraphiteAccord

Hondata, its not a piggy back that manipulates the stock ECU into doing something it was never ment to do. Standalone will be the best option you'll ever choose.

fredtoast

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by metal-x &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">actually the kit does not include a BTC nor a map contoller jrsc sells them seperately at extra cost </TD></TR></TABLE>

Oops, that's right. The kit only included the high pressure fuel pump, but I don't know anyone that doesn't have at least these minimum safeguards. Unless maybe it's the guys who had horror stories about making LESS hp after installing the jrsc.

The jrsc stuff works fine, but your air to fuel ratio will be too low at high rpm. It is safer for your engine to run too rich like this, but you lose some HP. So if you have someway to control the AF ratio you can make the car run leaner and stronger at high RPM.

You have a lot more choices besides the jrsc stuff and hondata. A lot of guys use the Apexi VAFC. This controls the fuel and vtec engagement point. You would use this with larger injectors so that you wouldn't have to run crazy high fuel pressure. A lot of guys also use the newer Cartech fmu (2025?) to control the fuel. You would still use the BTC with these to retard the timing under boost.

The hondata system controls both timing and fuel. You will be able to make more hp with the hondata, but it costs more. My car is a daily driver, so It is not worth the money to be (I have OBDII). If I were taking it to the track like you it would be worth it.

There are other options out there, but I don't even pretend to know much about them. Use the "search" it is your friend. H-T is the best site I've ever found for honda.


Modified by fredtoast at 3:30 PM 6/17/2003

CKim

JRSC kits didn't come with the high flow fuel pump when I bought mine a couple years back.

I would say that the biggest pro to the positive displacement blower is that the relationship between how far you press the accelerator and how fast the car accelerates stays the same. I'm having a hard time putting it into words... but in a turbo'ed car, you actually have to let off the throttle to maintain the same rate of acceleration as boost builds. Since boost is pretty much constant with the JRSC, you won't have any of this.

I guess it doesn't matter if you're accelerating ***** out in a straight line all the time, but personally, I find it much easier to modulate the gas in a turn in a non-turbo car.

My $0.02.

roadrunner

CKim:

Well said - you don't have the same precision with turbo cars. If I'm balancing a car, I would rather have scalpel precision than meat cleaver vagueness.

Rory Breaker

That is a good point, CKim.

And sorry Fred, tonight isnt your night. The kits dont come with a fuel pump either, rather one is "recommended". In this case, recommended really is necessary.

I would absolutely go Hondata. You can get the BTC and Map Mod, and that still does nothing to control fuel. That would be just to fight detonation and make the car a bit smoother. With Hondata you get all that and more...Hondata made my car smooth, faster, and all around much more driveable. To accomplish the same, who knows how many piggybacks you'll need. Hondata is the cure to 99% of any driveability/reliability problems associated with the charger. Dont take this the wrong way, many people including myself have run the charger without the BTC or Map Mod...it isnt a must have, but if youre looking to make the most out of the car both performance wise and reliability wise, you need to do something about possible detonation. Mine wasnt too bad, but I did detonate a bit at high RPMs. Once the Hondata went on, detonation dissapeared, transition to boost was seamless, car pulled much harder, a ton smoother...well worth it.

The pulley that comes with the kit is 6PSI...but in reality expect somewhere 6-7. Your stock injectors will be fine at that level, but 310+ would be ideal for higher boost levels. If you go Hondata, 440's/450's are perfect. You can also run the stock pump with Hondata, so theres another $100 reason to get it. 8PSI can be accomplished with a new blower pulley from JR, but I would avoid that route. There are a few ways to increase boost, the most popular and most effective probably being a new stepper pulley. This is the alternator pulley that is double ribbed...the different size pulley to create more boost is the famous "Endyn Stepper Pulley." A similar pulley that fits perfect (unlike Endyns) and is less prone to slipping is made by Jim from Motorvations Motorsports in AL. Youll see 8-9PSI with a stock JR blower pulley combined with the MVM pulley. This is the ideal setup for 8PSI, IMO. Hondata + MVM Pulley'd JRSC = one quick, reliable, torquey ride!

I dont know if the parts list is on JR's site, but if I remember right its the last page in the instructions. If you go download the instructions from http://www.jacksonracing.com, it may be there. If not, Im sure you can email them and they'll send it to you.

JRSC's are a great (and now pretty cheap) way to turn your car into a completely different animal. With more and more people experimenting with small nitrous setups and having amazing success, as well as new modifications and parts designed for the kit (Hondata, Intercoolers, 5rib pulley setups, etc)...the potential with these kits really gets higher every day.

fredtoast

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by newgsrdriver &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote"> And sorry Fred, tonight isnt your night. The kits dont come with a fuel pump either, rather one is "recommended". In this case, recommended really is necessary. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Sorry for the misinformation. The fuel pump is included with the kit for the type-r. I guess the gsr is different.

98civicguy

if you wanted to spray a shot of nitrous, a 35 or 50 shot will be perfect. its a nice way to cool down those temps, and give you an extra 50-70 hp. oh and i would suggest larger injectors, 550s to be exact.

98civicguy

on the nitrous set-up...i'd use a "wet" system. not "dry"

MEANB18

<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 98civicguy &raquo;</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">if you wanted to spray a shot of nitrous, a 35 or 50 shot will be perfect. its a nice way to cool down those temps, and give you an extra 50-70 hp. oh and i would suggest larger injectors, 550s to be exact. </TD></TR></TABLE>

Nitrous is not legal to use on the autocross track.