GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

 
Old 09-14-2017, 11:34 AM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by Autoworks View Post
I just read that budget part completely wrong. My bad.
all good
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:20 AM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by k20z1ej1 View Post
A friend of mine had a built b series Integra with a procharger on it and it was awesome. It felt like a 300whp n/a k series was under the hood. I loved it but it didn't feel boosted, per say. If you like the feeling of boost onset and the characteristics of a turbo engine, go turbo. If you like the idea of a boosted b series that feels like a 2.5-2.7 500whp na k series, AND you have a less limited budget, go rotrex.
well I've only ridden in one centrifugal supercharged car before and it was a s2k with a vortech kit making like 350whp. The low and mid range was definitely nothing to harp at but the top end felt very very strong above 5,000rpm as is expected from the characteristics of said supercharger.I think in a lighter Dc2 chassis making another 100whp and shorter geared trans it would really be fun to drive. I love turbo cars and all the sounds and just raw power and gobs of torque but I would like to try to different setup. Also I am aiming to get more involved in competitive road racing when I get back to the states and I know the rotrex kits shine on the track... so that's another big factor in my decision.

Originally Posted by Autoworks View Post
It would cost more to put a complete supercharger kit on a car than it would to turbocharge it.

It felt like "a 300whp K" due to the linear power the SC is going to make/makes. That can also be achieved with a turbocharger for those that like that kind of feel/power. I don't know about the "B series that feels like a 500whp NA K" part.
Have any customers with build threads running the b series rotrex kit Greg? Unlike the thousands of turbo setups online to make calculated guesses on how to go about a setup and dyno vids and in car pulls etc the supercharger crowd seems pretty hush. I get that the supercharger isn't popular for the fact of horsepower to dollar ratio vs a turbo kit but some men don't wanna drag race the world.
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Old 09-15-2017, 09:32 AM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by GEN2 LS View Post
Have any customers with build threads running the b series rotrex kit Greg? Unlike the thousands of turbo setups online to make calculated guesses on how to go about a setup and dyno vids and in car pulls etc the supercharger crowd seems pretty hush. I get that the supercharger isn't popular for the fact of horsepower to dollar ratio vs a turbo kit but some men don't wanna drag race the world.
May be interested in these:


https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced...143249/page14/


I would have been all over this kit were it not for the fact the SC takes the place of the compressor.
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Old 09-15-2017, 04:38 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by GEN2 LS View Post
I get that the supercharger isn't popular for the fact of horsepower to dollar ratio vs a turbo kit but some men don't wanna drag race the world.
You do understand that more vehicles of all makes do drag racing with superchargers than turbos, right?

don't put us in a box like that. Just as many turbo users hate drag racing as other setups
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Old 09-15-2017, 10:10 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build



Join me GEN2LS... and together we can rule the Galaxy !!!
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:25 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by GEN2 LS View Post
Yeah I would like to switch at some point when I change my turbo setup. Did you notice a big difference going from a ramhorn to a mini ram.

I switched from a ram to inline pro log, which is most similar to a mini ram if you really look at it.

The RAM was kinda terrible IMO, once VTEC hit forget about traction in the early gears, just climbed to quickly at a certain point, whereas the Inline pro is a much smoother transition

first image is dyno run with the ram second to is the Inline pro, unfortunately RPM readings got messed up after 6K

It made for a better power band particularly in the 4-5K range little bit less in the 6-7K area but it made a tad more peak power. same turbo only thing that was changed was manifold and intercooler. Overall much better street car
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Last edited by 2kdrift; 09-15-2017 at 11:55 PM.
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Old 09-15-2017, 11:37 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
You do understand that more vehicles of all makes do drag racing with superchargers than turbos, right?

don't put us in a box like that. Just as many turbo users hate drag racing as other setups
well speaking from a 4 cylinder honda perspective is what I meant. I haven't seen one competitive supercharged honda setup in SFWD or Outlaw etc.
Originally Posted by JRCivic1 View Post


Join me GEN2LS... and together we can rule the Galaxy !!!
Make that video bruh! You should contact "ThatDudeinBlue" on youtube and have him do a review on your car, He lives in Georgia now I believe.

Originally Posted by 2kdrift View Post
I switched from a ram to inline pro log, which is most similar to a mini ram if you really look at it, first image is dyno run with the ram second to is the Inline pro, unfortunately RPM readings got messed up after 6K but it made better power both in power band and peak. Same turbo only thing that was changed was manifold and intercooler.
Nice gains, what turbo were you using? Sounds like a good switch though.
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Old 09-16-2017, 12:05 AM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

one you've never heard of lol. Supposed to be between a 3076 and a 3071 with the best of both worlds. Some will tell you its not a good turbo but from my experience does well for my usage,


Bulls eye power batmowheel B252. same size wheel as a Borg warner s252 and promises flow of the S256
Batmowheel Turbochargers B252
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Old 09-16-2017, 03:18 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Oh, those questioning the Batmowheel aren't saying it isn't good. After all, it's being surrounded by a Borg-Warner rotating system. It's the wheel design that can use some improvement from what they offered. There are current generation EFR, GTX, and others that had already made better designs. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't work well. (hell, cast compressor wheels still work well. , doesn't mean they're broken.. right?)
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Old 09-16-2017, 04:49 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Yea i hear ya, either way its still overpriced for what it is, and the smaller Exhaust housing I have helps with the less then optimal exhaust wheel size
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Old 09-16-2017, 05:00 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by 2kdrift View Post
Yea i hear ya, either way its still overpriced for what it is, and the smaller Exhaust housing I have helps with the less then optimal exhaust wheel size
It's up therein cost relative to others, but definitely not the most outrageous BW-based custom turbo I've seen.
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Old 09-17-2017, 08:33 AM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
It's up therein cost relative to others, but definitely not the most outrageous BW-based custom turbo I've seen.
How would you compare them to the factor FMW wheels and the billet agp wheels?
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Old 09-17-2017, 01:06 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by Geis View Post
How would you compare them to the factor FMW wheels and the billet agp wheels?
I can't answer that with any surety or precision. I don't delve into too many company designs, unless they seem to really stand it as an outlier (like a batmowheel).

There's just not enough time in the days to do all that, and it is horribly costly to obtain that kind of impartial data just for the sake of knowledge. It's not like a budget header test or any other off-the-cuff data collection.
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Old 09-17-2017, 01:19 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
I can't answer that with any surety or precision. I don't delve into too many company designs, unless they seem to really stand it as an outlier (like a batmowheel).

There's just not enough time in the days to do all that, and it is horribly costly to obtain that kind of impartial data just for the sake of knowledge. It's not like a budget header test or any other off-the-cuff data collection.
Yes, I wish it was more viable to test out all the turbos out there with the huge assortment of modifications and platforms one can run them on. Thanks for the input.
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Old 09-17-2017, 01:37 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by Geis View Post
Yes, I wish it was more viable to test out all the turbos out there with the huge assortment of modifications and platforms one can run them on. Thanks for the input.
They have to all be run in the same exhaust wheel profile and EXACT type of exhaust plier machine to do it. It would be easily be thousands of dollars per day to set that up with such a test. Which would taje weeks to compile & complete
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Old 09-18-2017, 04:00 AM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by GEN2 LS View Post
Have any customers with build threads running the b series rotrex kit Greg? Unlike the thousands of turbo setups online to make calculated guesses on how to go about a setup and dyno vids and in car pulls etc the supercharger crowd seems pretty hush. I get that the supercharger isn't popular for the fact of horsepower to dollar ratio vs a turbo kit but some men don't wanna drag race the world.
I don't think it's a "drag race" mentality thing as much as it is a "power per dollar" thing. I've sold several of our KW supercharger install kits, and oddly enough I'd say 90% of them went out of the country, and prob 80% went out as wholesale, so I didn't really have contact with the end user at all on the majority of those orders. With the SC, you REALLY need to taylor the entire setup to be geared towards the SC to really maximize what it's going to do; which most do not. With that, the results I've seen haven't been "mind blowing". More consistant than anything as a C30 is only going to do so much with minimal variation. The only person I know that has collected a lot of data on them is Jim @ Motorvations; superchargers is just his thing. He also has the C38 bracketry for the bigger charger fitment (which you can not bolt a C38 into the regular Kraftwerks bracket).
A turbo setup as we all know can really be made to fit like a fine suit. You can put the power where you want it, how you want it, and pretty much dial in as much as you want (within the boundaries of the entire setup). It will always trump the SC when it comes to the B series IMO as a whole (other apps, my opinion changes as I've put the Rotrex C38 on a few other things; got a car here now with one). The SC has it's place obviously, but when comparing the 2 IMO, turbo is the way to go.
Here's a really old vid FWIW. If you let it play out, the next vid to pop up is the Kraftwerks vid w/Brandons HB. It has the pre production kit on it as he worked at S2. The kit I had was one of the first production ones to be released.
Originally Posted by 2kdrift View Post
one you've never heard of lol. Supposed to be between a 3076 and a 3071 with the best of both worlds. Some will tell you its not a good turbo but from my experience does well for my usage,


Bulls eye power batmowheel B252. same size wheel as a Borg warner s252 and promises flow of the S256
Batmowheel Turbochargers B252
You don't won't see much Batmo stuff in the Honda market; it just never took off for a few reasons. The few we sold were enjoyed by the customers and made good power.
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Old 09-18-2017, 06:45 AM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by Autoworks View Post

You don't won't see much Batmo stuff in the Honda market; it just never took off for a few reasons. The few we sold were enjoyed by the customers and made good power.
I remember when that wheel was about to be released after its phase 2 development. It originally started off as a type of "cheater wheel" for indcer-sized restricted classes of import racing. It transformed into something that was definitely different, but IMHO, lacked in a few areas that simpler designs were able to accomplish.

The reasons for the cost of the batmowheel is rather simple.
1) The 7075 grade aluminum material that is used for the wheel is rather a difficult cut to make. That is a very high grade to use (which is costly), and the programming alone is rather expensive to implement. Even dealers/ distributors need a very high volume on-hand in order to make it cost effective to sell. Since turbocharger sales in ALL markets (Petrol & Diesel) can seriously fluctuate, it doesn't help dealers/distributors to stock parts and complete turbos in bulk, just for them to sit on shelves, waiting for someone to be different enough to give it an honest try to use. Not with the PTE Marketing machine cranking out its propaganda.

2) Borg-Warner base. On top of the cost of the wheel itself, you have to account for the BW and BEP parts that are used. They are a bit more expensive than even Garrett parts (which people for some odd reason bitch about constantly. ) but use very robust materials, and an oversized exhaust wheel to boot. But, because these are expensive, well, it's not easy being Green

3)Availability. The compressor wheels themselves, of course, are quite readily available, and BEP will always make sure that they have their facilities available to people for replacement. The rest of the turbo, may be a toss-up due to BW parts availability. Now, I'm not sure about their recent status, but like many companies, in order to stop lagginess of parts orders from BW, they've made a few high-quality replacements. Again, because of the creation size, cost may be a factor.

Now, Everyone knows my particular biases, but in all fairness, I'd honestly rock a Batmowheel before I'd run a PTE or a Comp.. But, that is another story.
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Old 04-13-2018, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build


So updates! It's been a while but finally started working on the car again. I'm currently still in South Korea for work so a good friend of mine and my tuner have been doing all the work for me. Sent the turbo to BoostLab and was going in for a basic rebuild only to find out that my turbo had bigger issues so I upgraded the internals of my decade old GT3076R turbo to what's picture.

Cylinder head also came off via my tuner car needed some new valve stem seals etc. So should be back on the road soon unfortunately I won't be back any time soon to enjoy it.
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:25 AM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Glad your back at it. Does blow that your car isnt stationed with you
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:36 AM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by ls joker View Post
Glad your back at it. Does blow that your car isnt stationed with you
yeah it does! Luckily I only have to be here for 1 year.
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Old 05-16-2018, 10:12 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Update new GoAutoWorks Manifold is on, fresh rebuilt GT3076R with new GTX3076R wheel installed etc. New headgasket, cylinder head refreshed (had leaky valve stem seals) New downpipe and that covers it.

My tuner posted this video. He does vlogs so there are bits and pieces of my car being worked on. Feel free to watch the whole thing or just the updates on my car. Starting at 1:23 and 6:13 and 19:12.

Previous setup made 502whp on 19psi temps were a lot cooler. Probably 70 degrees and low humidity if I remember.

This setup made 464whp on 19psi but this dyno session temps outside were 99 degrees. IAT's were reading 146 F so I'm happy with the numbers. I'm still out of the country so it'll be a few months before I get to drive it.

Hopefully with the new upgrades to the old turbo I can hit 580whp on C16 in the future! Goal wasn't max power on this really wanted faster spool and better response hence the change from the topmount to mini ram.

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Old 05-17-2018, 07:48 AM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Nice man! I bet there is a night and day difference in response on the street with that manifold swap. That’s cool that there is no boost creep with your mini ram, my wg is on the side of my mini ram vs yours being right in front and I get boost creep. Your probably dying to get back and drive it, I know I would be lol.
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Old 05-17-2018, 02:41 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Good work, that power curve is excellent
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Old 05-17-2018, 04:42 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by boosted94gsr View Post
Nice man! I bet there is a night and day difference in response on the street with that manifold swap. Thatís cool that there is no boost creep with your mini ram, my wg is on the side of my mini ram vs yours being right in front and I get boost creep. Your probably dying to get back and drive it, I know I would be lol.
I've had several wastegates "on the side" (meaning that they were 90* off-center of the collector) for many years, and never had an issue with boost creep. Contrary to popular belief, that's not a real effect of causation. It's the boost reference point along with the amount of CFM airflow given the gate's valve size, boost pressure etc.
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Old 05-17-2018, 06:24 PM
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Default Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build

Originally Posted by TheShodan View Post
I've had several wastegates "on the side" (meaning that they were 90* off-center of the collector) for many years, and never had an issue with boost creep. Contrary to popular belief, that's not a real effect of causation. It's the boost reference point along with the amount of CFM airflow given the gate's valve size, boost pressure etc.
Well I canít get rid of boost creep on my setup no matter what I do. Iíve changed the boost reference point from the cold side intercooler cooler piping to intake manifold, had 3 different wg spring sizes 4,7, & 10lbs, had 3 different engines at 3 different compression ratios 9.6, 10.6, & 11.7-1, on 3 different fuel types pump 92, pump/methanol injection, and e85. Had ignition timing all over the place and nothing Iíve done has changed the boost creep. I always get 3-4psi creep over wg spring rate. Now I can tune around it just fine to get a flat boost curve, it just takes more time is all. So on my particular setup what do you think the cause of the creep is?
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