GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
#52
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
A friend of mine had a built b series Integra with a procharger on it and it was awesome. It felt like a 300whp n/a k series was under the hood. I loved it but it didn't feel boosted, per say. If you like the feeling of boost onset and the characteristics of a turbo engine, go turbo. If you like the idea of a boosted b series that feels like a 2.5-2.7 500whp na k series, AND you have a less limited budget, go rotrex.
It would cost more to put a complete supercharger kit on a car than it would to turbocharge it.
It felt like "a 300whp K" due to the linear power the SC is going to make/makes. That can also be achieved with a turbocharger for those that like that kind of feel/power. I don't know about the "B series that feels like a 500whp NA K" part.
It felt like "a 300whp K" due to the linear power the SC is going to make/makes. That can also be achieved with a turbocharger for those that like that kind of feel/power. I don't know about the "B series that feels like a 500whp NA K" part.
#53
Honda-Tech Member
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
Have any customers with build threads running the b series rotrex kit Greg? Unlike the thousands of turbo setups online to make calculated guesses on how to go about a setup and dyno vids and in car pulls etc the supercharger crowd seems pretty hush. I get that the supercharger isn't popular for the fact of horsepower to dollar ratio vs a turbo kit but some men don't wanna drag race the world.
https://honda-tech.com/forums/forced...143249/page14/
I would have been all over this kit were it not for the fact the SC takes the place of the compressor.
#56
Honda-Tech Member
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
I switched from a ram to inline pro log, which is most similar to a mini ram if you really look at it.
The RAM was kinda terrible IMO, once VTEC hit forget about traction in the early gears, just climbed to quickly at a certain point, whereas the Inline pro is a much smoother transition
first image is dyno run with the ram second to is the Inline pro, unfortunately RPM readings got messed up after 6K
It made for a better power band particularly in the 4-5K range little bit less in the 6-7K area but it made a tad more peak power. same turbo only thing that was changed was manifold and intercooler. Overall much better street car
Last edited by 2kdrift; 09-15-2017 at 11:55 PM.
#57
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
Make that video bruh! You should contact "ThatDudeinBlue" on youtube and have him do a review on your car, He lives in Georgia now I believe.
I switched from a ram to inline pro log, which is most similar to a mini ram if you really look at it, first image is dyno run with the ram second to is the Inline pro, unfortunately RPM readings got messed up after 6K but it made better power both in power band and peak. Same turbo only thing that was changed was manifold and intercooler.
#58
Honda-Tech Member
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
one you've never heard of lol. Supposed to be between a 3076 and a 3071 with the best of both worlds. Some will tell you its not a good turbo but from my experience does well for my usage,
Bulls eye power batmowheel B252. same size wheel as a Borg warner s252 and promises flow of the S256
Batmowheel Turbochargers B252
Bulls eye power batmowheel B252. same size wheel as a Borg warner s252 and promises flow of the S256
Batmowheel Turbochargers B252
#59
Moderator
iTrader: (14)
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
Oh, those questioning the Batmowheel aren't saying it isn't good. After all, it's being surrounded by a Borg-Warner rotating system. It's the wheel design that can use some improvement from what they offered. There are current generation EFR, GTX, and others that had already made better designs. But that doesn't mean that it doesn't work well. (hell, cast compressor wheels still work well. , doesn't mean they're broken.. right?)
#60
Honda-Tech Member
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
Yea i hear ya, either way its still overpriced for what it is, and the smaller Exhaust housing I have helps with the less then optimal exhaust wheel size
#62
Honda-Tech Member
#63
Moderator
iTrader: (14)
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
There's just not enough time in the days to do all that, and it is horribly costly to obtain that kind of impartial data just for the sake of knowledge. It's not like a budget header test or any other off-the-cuff data collection.
#64
Honda-Tech Member
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
I can't answer that with any surety or precision. I don't delve into too many company designs, unless they seem to really stand it as an outlier (like a batmowheel).
There's just not enough time in the days to do all that, and it is horribly costly to obtain that kind of impartial data just for the sake of knowledge. It's not like a budget header test or any other off-the-cuff data collection.
There's just not enough time in the days to do all that, and it is horribly costly to obtain that kind of impartial data just for the sake of knowledge. It's not like a budget header test or any other off-the-cuff data collection.
#65
Moderator
iTrader: (14)
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
They have to all be run in the same exhaust wheel profile and EXACT type of exhaust plier machine to do it. It would be easily be thousands of dollars per day to set that up with such a test. Which would taje weeks to compile & complete
#66
Honda-Tech Member
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
Have any customers with build threads running the b series rotrex kit Greg? Unlike the thousands of turbo setups online to make calculated guesses on how to go about a setup and dyno vids and in car pulls etc the supercharger crowd seems pretty hush. I get that the supercharger isn't popular for the fact of horsepower to dollar ratio vs a turbo kit but some men don't wanna drag race the world.
A turbo setup as we all know can really be made to fit like a fine suit. You can put the power where you want it, how you want it, and pretty much dial in as much as you want (within the boundaries of the entire setup). It will always trump the SC when it comes to the B series IMO as a whole (other apps, my opinion changes as I've put the Rotrex C38 on a few other things; got a car here now with one). The SC has it's place obviously, but when comparing the 2 IMO, turbo is the way to go.
Here's a really old vid FWIW. If you let it play out, the next vid to pop up is the Kraftwerks vid w/Brandons HB. It has the pre production kit on it as he worked at S2. The kit I had was one of the first production ones to be released.
one you've never heard of lol. Supposed to be between a 3076 and a 3071 with the best of both worlds. Some will tell you its not a good turbo but from my experience does well for my usage,
Bulls eye power batmowheel B252. same size wheel as a Borg warner s252 and promises flow of the S256
Batmowheel Turbochargers B252
Bulls eye power batmowheel B252. same size wheel as a Borg warner s252 and promises flow of the S256
Batmowheel Turbochargers B252
#67
Moderator
iTrader: (14)
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
The reasons for the cost of the batmowheel is rather simple.
1) The 7075 grade aluminum material that is used for the wheel is rather a difficult cut to make. That is a very high grade to use (which is costly), and the programming alone is rather expensive to implement. Even dealers/ distributors need a very high volume on-hand in order to make it cost effective to sell. Since turbocharger sales in ALL markets (Petrol & Diesel) can seriously fluctuate, it doesn't help dealers/distributors to stock parts and complete turbos in bulk, just for them to sit on shelves, waiting for someone to be different enough to give it an honest try to use. Not with the PTE Marketing machine cranking out its propaganda.
2) Borg-Warner base. On top of the cost of the wheel itself, you have to account for the BW and BEP parts that are used. They are a bit more expensive than even Garrett parts (which people for some odd reason bitch about constantly. ) but use very robust materials, and an oversized exhaust wheel to boot. But, because these are expensive, well, it's not easy being Green
3)Availability. The compressor wheels themselves, of course, are quite readily available, and BEP will always make sure that they have their facilities available to people for replacement. The rest of the turbo, may be a toss-up due to BW parts availability. Now, I'm not sure about their recent status, but like many companies, in order to stop lagginess of parts orders from BW, they've made a few high-quality replacements. Again, because of the creation size, cost may be a factor.
Now, Everyone knows my particular biases, but in all fairness, I'd honestly rock a Batmowheel before I'd run a PTE or a Comp.. But, that is another story.
#68
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
So updates! It's been a while but finally started working on the car again. I'm currently still in South Korea for work so a good friend of mine and my tuner have been doing all the work for me. Sent the turbo to BoostLab and was going in for a basic rebuild only to find out that my turbo had bigger issues so I upgraded the internals of my decade old GT3076R turbo to what's picture.
Cylinder head also came off via my tuner car needed some new valve stem seals etc. So should be back on the road soon unfortunately I won't be back any time soon to enjoy it.
#71
Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
Update new GoAutoWorks Manifold is on, fresh rebuilt GT3076R with new GTX3076R wheel installed etc. New headgasket, cylinder head refreshed (had leaky valve stem seals) New downpipe and that covers it.
My tuner posted this video. He does vlogs so there are bits and pieces of my car being worked on. Feel free to watch the whole thing or just the updates on my car. Starting at 1:23 and 6:13 and 19:12.
Previous setup made 502whp on 19psi temps were a lot cooler. Probably 70 degrees and low humidity if I remember.
This setup made 464whp on 19psi but this dyno session temps outside were 99 degrees. IAT's were reading 146 F so I'm happy with the numbers. I'm still out of the country so it'll be a few months before I get to drive it.
Hopefully with the new upgrades to the old turbo I can hit 580whp on C16 in the future! Goal wasn't max power on this really wanted faster spool and better response hence the change from the topmount to mini ram.
My tuner posted this video. He does vlogs so there are bits and pieces of my car being worked on. Feel free to watch the whole thing or just the updates on my car. Starting at 1:23 and 6:13 and 19:12.
Previous setup made 502whp on 19psi temps were a lot cooler. Probably 70 degrees and low humidity if I remember.
This setup made 464whp on 19psi but this dyno session temps outside were 99 degrees. IAT's were reading 146 F so I'm happy with the numbers. I'm still out of the country so it'll be a few months before I get to drive it.
Hopefully with the new upgrades to the old turbo I can hit 580whp on C16 in the future! Goal wasn't max power on this really wanted faster spool and better response hence the change from the topmount to mini ram.
#72
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Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
Nice man! I bet there is a night and day difference in response on the street with that manifold swap. That’s cool that there is no boost creep with your mini ram, my wg is on the side of my mini ram vs yours being right in front and I get boost creep. Your probably dying to get back and drive it, I know I would be lol.
#74
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Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
Nice man! I bet there is a night and day difference in response on the street with that manifold swap. That’s cool that there is no boost creep with your mini ram, my wg is on the side of my mini ram vs yours being right in front and I get boost creep. Your probably dying to get back and drive it, I know I would be lol.
#75
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Re: GEN2LS's 500whp 93 octane GSR progress build
I've had several wastegates "on the side" (meaning that they were 90* off-center of the collector) for many years, and never had an issue with boost creep. Contrary to popular belief, that's not a real effect of causation. It's the boost reference point along with the amount of CFM airflow given the gate's valve size, boost pressure etc.