Fuel management Q: FMU, VAFC, or standalone
04-21-2003, 08:20 PM
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Fuel management Q: FMU, VAFC, or standalone
OK, I have B17 motor with stock internals and I plan to run a max of 8psi with either a T3 or a 14B turbo. It will be a daily driver running on pump gas of 91-94 octane. I'm still unclear and undecided of which fuel management to use and which component each method consists of, so here is what i know so far (pardon me, i'm a turbo noob and this is my first post, but honda-tech seems like a welath of knowledge)
1. FMU and check valves or missing link
- this method i have heard over and over that it's not good cuz you run way too rich, bad mileage, stinky smog coming out of the back, and injectors aren't meant for high pressures of more than 60 psi or something. I don't think i'll be going to use this anyways but some thoughts on it would be nice.
2. VAFC and dsm 450 injectors
- do i still need check valves, FMU,or missing link?
- can i use prelude 310 injectors or anything smaller than dsm 450cc?
how much better is this compared to the FMU and check valves in regards to fuel economy and reliablilty?
- do i need dyno time or wideband like a standalone does or can i tune without these?
3. Standalone
- more accurate and efficient
I will have the money one day and upgrade to this
So basically i'm leaning towards the VAFC hack cuz of of the price, i'm just unclear of what items i need to do this. Ex. Do i need FMU and check valve still or FPR?
my fuel pump will be upgraded or course as it should be with any decent turbo setup
thx in advance !
1. FMU and check valves or missing link
- this method i have heard over and over that it's not good cuz you run way too rich, bad mileage, stinky smog coming out of the back, and injectors aren't meant for high pressures of more than 60 psi or something. I don't think i'll be going to use this anyways but some thoughts on it would be nice.
2. VAFC and dsm 450 injectors
- do i still need check valves, FMU,or missing link?
- can i use prelude 310 injectors or anything smaller than dsm 450cc?
how much better is this compared to the FMU and check valves in regards to fuel economy and reliablilty?
- do i need dyno time or wideband like a standalone does or can i tune without these?
3. Standalone
- more accurate and efficient
I will have the money one day and upgrade to this
So basically i'm leaning towards the VAFC hack cuz of of the price, i'm just unclear of what items i need to do this. Ex. Do i need FMU and check valve still or FPR?
my fuel pump will be upgraded or course as it should be with any decent turbo setup
thx in advance !
04-21-2003, 08:32 PM
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Re: Fuel management Q: FMU, VAFC, or standalone (deebee-II)
On a tight budget do the v-afc hack.
if you can save a little more (not much) go hondata the tunability is great.
Not only will you make more power but it will run a little safe because you can dial in the tuning
if you can save a little more (not much) go hondata the tunability is great.
Not only will you make more power but it will run a little safe because you can dial in the tuning
04-21-2003, 08:51 PM
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Re: (deebee-II)
You should still run them as a safety thing, I run the missing link and check valves, and I am running a VAFC with a FMU. I also am running stock injectors. It works ok, but it is not as tuneable as Standalone...Good luck and dont go ,more than like 10lbs with the setup....
04-21-2003, 08:59 PM
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Re: (deebee-II)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deebee-II »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes i am tight on budget, poor man's handata i read.
But with VAFC do i need FMU or missing link/check valves?
i have FPR already</TD></TR></TABLE>
depends on what size injectors your go with.
If you do 450cc injectors (440 dsm) you will not need a fmu or missing link.
but if you do as i did you will still need a fmu.
I have a 4:1 fmu with 310cc injectors. i bought a sfc to fine tune the fuel curve. So really i'm not doing the hack, i'm still using a fmu set-up but just using the sfc to fne tune the fuel curve.
But with VAFC do i need FMU or missing link/check valves?
i have FPR already</TD></TR></TABLE>
depends on what size injectors your go with.
If you do 450cc injectors (440 dsm) you will not need a fmu or missing link.
but if you do as i did you will still need a fmu.
I have a 4:1 fmu with 310cc injectors. i bought a sfc to fine tune the fuel curve. So really i'm not doing the hack, i'm still using a fmu set-up but just using the sfc to fne tune the fuel curve.
04-21-2003, 08:59 PM
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Re: (deebee-II)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deebee-II »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">yes i am tight on budget, poor man's handata i read.
But with VAFC do i need FMU or missing link/check valves?
i have FPR already</TD></TR></TABLE>
No need for missing link or FMU.
I ran the Hack and now i run hondata. I highly recommend hondata over the hack. IMO
But with VAFC do i need FMU or missing link/check valves?
i have FPR already</TD></TR></TABLE>
No need for missing link or FMU.
I ran the Hack and now i run hondata. I highly recommend hondata over the hack. IMO
04-21-2003, 09:09 PM
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Re: (95c1v1cs1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95c1v1cs1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
No need for missing link or FMU.
I ran the Hack and now i run hondata. I highly recommend hondata over the hack. IMO</TD></TR></TABLE>
How did the hack work for you? In your opinion? And how does it compare over the standard boost dependant FMU/check valve set up?
No need for missing link or FMU.
I ran the Hack and now i run hondata. I highly recommend hondata over the hack. IMO</TD></TR></TABLE>
How did the hack work for you? In your opinion? And how does it compare over the standard boost dependant FMU/check valve set up?
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04-22-2003, 09:35 AM
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Re: (deebee-II)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by deebee-II »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">how was the mileage with the hack ?
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I gained 50 miles to my tank with hondata and my car runs a ton smoother. Hondata is the way to go.
</TD></TR></TABLE>
I gained 50 miles to my tank with hondata and my car runs a ton smoother. Hondata is the way to go.
04-22-2003, 10:19 AM
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I did this setup on my Turbo Type R with a built low compression GS-R motor:
GM Map Sensor
Apexi V-AFC
no missing link
no fmu
RC 440 ml Injectors
I haven't run the car hard yet because I am still breaking it in, but I've done loads of research, and I'm positive that this will be better than the V-AFC hack. With the AFC hack, you can't run more than 11 lbs of boost unless you run a missing link, but that is stupid because that means that you can't accurately boost readings on your Apexi. I plan on running more than that on my motor, so I got the GM 3 bar map sensor off a Grand Prix GTP. When you run injectors that are twice the size, they are going to be pumping twice as much fuel into the cylinder, so with the AFC hack, you would just compensate by cutting the map sensor voltage in half. That is why everybody sets it for -40% or so. 0 psi on the honda map sensor is 4.2 V. Meaning that at max boost, you're going to want 4.2 volts going to your ecu (to prevent check engine) and that will cause the ecu to run maximum duty cycle on the injectors. 0 psi on the GM map sensor is 1.6 V. You can then tune the Apexi to give the ECU the voltage it needs to make the car run right. Instead of having a baseline of -40%, you can start at 0% and adjust from there. That's my theory. If there's anybody that can find anything flaws in it let me know, But I think it will work just fine.
GM Map Sensor
Apexi V-AFC
no missing link
no fmu
RC 440 ml Injectors
I haven't run the car hard yet because I am still breaking it in, but I've done loads of research, and I'm positive that this will be better than the V-AFC hack. With the AFC hack, you can't run more than 11 lbs of boost unless you run a missing link, but that is stupid because that means that you can't accurately boost readings on your Apexi. I plan on running more than that on my motor, so I got the GM 3 bar map sensor off a Grand Prix GTP. When you run injectors that are twice the size, they are going to be pumping twice as much fuel into the cylinder, so with the AFC hack, you would just compensate by cutting the map sensor voltage in half. That is why everybody sets it for -40% or so. 0 psi on the honda map sensor is 4.2 V. Meaning that at max boost, you're going to want 4.2 volts going to your ecu (to prevent check engine) and that will cause the ecu to run maximum duty cycle on the injectors. 0 psi on the GM map sensor is 1.6 V. You can then tune the Apexi to give the ECU the voltage it needs to make the car run right. Instead of having a baseline of -40%, you can start at 0% and adjust from there. That's my theory. If there's anybody that can find anything flaws in it let me know, But I think it will work just fine.
04-22-2003, 03:28 PM
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Re: (95c1v1cs1)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by 95c1v1cs1 »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">
I gained 50 miles to my tank with hondata and my car runs a ton smoother. Hondata is the way to go.</TD></TR></TABLE>
icic, but with the afc hack, how many miles were you getting?
i just want a rough idea, If the mileage with the hack is horrible like a FMU gettin you 200-250 km per tank, then i'd rather save up for a hondata
I gained 50 miles to my tank with hondata and my car runs a ton smoother. Hondata is the way to go.</TD></TR></TABLE>
icic, but with the afc hack, how many miles were you getting?
i just want a rough idea, If the mileage with the hack is horrible like a FMU gettin you 200-250 km per tank, then i'd rather save up for a hondata
04-23-2003, 09:28 PM
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Re: (Type-GS-R-Turbo)
<TABLE WIDTH="90%" CELLSPACING=0 CELLPADDING=0 ALIGN=CENTER><TR><TD>Quote, originally posted by Type-GS-R-Turbo »</TD></TR><TR><TD CLASS="quote">I did this setup on my Turbo Type R with a built low compression GS-R motor:
GM Map Sensor
Apexi V-AFC
no missing link
no fmu
RC 440 ml Injectors
I haven't run the car hard yet because I am still breaking it in, but I've done loads of research, and I'm positive that this will be better than the V-AFC hack. With the AFC hack, you can't run more than 11 lbs of boost unless you run a missing link, but that is stupid because that means that you can't accurately boost readings on your Apexi. I plan on running more than that on my motor, so I got the GM 3 bar map sensor off a Grand Prix GTP. When you run injectors that are twice the size, they are going to be pumping twice as much fuel into the cylinder, so with the AFC hack, you would just compensate by cutting the map sensor voltage in half. That is why everybody sets it for -40% or so. 0 psi on the honda map sensor is 4.2 V. Meaning that at max boost, you're going to want 4.2 volts going to your ecu (to prevent check engine) and that will cause the ecu to run maximum duty cycle on the injectors. 0 psi on the GM map sensor is 1.6 V. You can then tune the Apexi to give the ECU the voltage it needs to make the car run right. Instead of having a baseline of -40%, you can start at 0% and adjust from there. That's my theory. If there's anybody that can find anything flaws in it let me know, But I think it will work just fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This sounds right...but if you really want to find out, you should ask Liam821 himself. He's pretty much the guy that pioneered this hack for Hondas... Try PMing him, and please post any further results. I am very curious myself to see if this helps!
GM Map Sensor
Apexi V-AFC
no missing link
no fmu
RC 440 ml Injectors
I haven't run the car hard yet because I am still breaking it in, but I've done loads of research, and I'm positive that this will be better than the V-AFC hack. With the AFC hack, you can't run more than 11 lbs of boost unless you run a missing link, but that is stupid because that means that you can't accurately boost readings on your Apexi. I plan on running more than that on my motor, so I got the GM 3 bar map sensor off a Grand Prix GTP. When you run injectors that are twice the size, they are going to be pumping twice as much fuel into the cylinder, so with the AFC hack, you would just compensate by cutting the map sensor voltage in half. That is why everybody sets it for -40% or so. 0 psi on the honda map sensor is 4.2 V. Meaning that at max boost, you're going to want 4.2 volts going to your ecu (to prevent check engine) and that will cause the ecu to run maximum duty cycle on the injectors. 0 psi on the GM map sensor is 1.6 V. You can then tune the Apexi to give the ECU the voltage it needs to make the car run right. Instead of having a baseline of -40%, you can start at 0% and adjust from there. That's my theory. If there's anybody that can find anything flaws in it let me know, But I think it will work just fine.</TD></TR></TABLE>
This sounds right...but if you really want to find out, you should ask Liam821 himself. He's pretty much the guy that pioneered this hack for Hondas... Try PMing him, and please post any further results. I am very curious myself to see if this helps!
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